Author Topic: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades  (Read 18875 times)

MillCreek

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TommyGunn

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 10:31:33 PM »
All they have to do is take a real close look in Washington DC and they will find  plenty  of inhuman activity .    :)
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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 10:40:42 PM »
All they have to do is take a real close look in Washington DC and they will find do plenty  of inhuman activity .    :)

Beat me to it.
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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 10:53:13 PM »
I assume that the aliens will pick up our TV signals before coming into our sensory range. With that in mind I think NASA is over-confident.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 11:24:56 PM »
I assume that the aliens will pick up our TV signals before coming into our sensory range. With that in mind I think NASA is over-confident.

I'm pretty sure they mean simple life forms on Mars, Europa, maybe in the water-ice geysers on Enceladus.

And the light-cone of our radio leakage is a sphere only about  200 LY in diameter. When we do CGI representations of the Milky Way, as seen from intergalactic space, that sphere is smaller than the points being used to represent individual stars.

And it weakens by the inverse square law as it goes outward.

The one thing everyone seems to forget when debating "should we transmit instead of just listening?" is that the transmitting civilization has to beat the Drake equation too.
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Regolith

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2015, 11:40:58 PM »
All they have to do is take a real close look in Washington DC and they will find  plenty  of inhuman activity .    :)

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 12:15:22 AM »
OK, for serious you guys. What is with this idea that water = life?  ??? They just keep saying that in all these news articles.
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Northwoods

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 02:16:57 AM »
http://www.popsci.com/nasa-sure-well-find-alien-life-within-next-few-decades

I hope I am alive to see it.



Finding alien life, like cold fusion and viable electric cars are always going to be just a few decades away.
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Regolith

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 03:05:20 AM »
OK, for serious you guys. What is with this idea that water = life?  ??? They just keep saying that in all these news articles.

Liquid water is one of the chemicals we are fairly certain is necessary for life, at least life as we find on Earth. None of the chemical processes would work without it. It also happens to be relatively easy to look for. So, if we can find places that have liquid water, we can be reasonably certain that life could possibly exist there.

Of course, we could be totally wrong about that assumption, but that's one of the problems inherent in having a sample size of "1".
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RocketMan

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 05:54:57 AM »
OK, for serious you guys. What is with this idea that water = life?  ??? They just keep saying that in all these news articles.

Without water there can be no booze.  Without booze, life is not possible.
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230RN

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 06:54:46 AM »
The trouble is the loss of water to space.

Browse:

http://www.info.com/search?qkw=loss%20of%20water%20to%20space&qcat=web&r_cop=aylf&insp=%3Fpvaid%3D8fa7bf442a864b4cb7e325802ece01b5%26fcoid%3D300

On smaller bodies, this loss is greater, and there might not be any water left, only the evidence of it being there in the past.

Mars seems to have only a bit of dense CO2 left, whereas Jupiter's mass still retains even methane.

The body's temperature also plays a role in this loss rate.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 07:29:49 AM »
So, if we can find places that have liquid water, we can be reasonably certain that life could possibly exist there.


 :laugh: I can't tell if that's meant to be a joke, or not.
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charby

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 08:18:16 AM »

 :laugh: I can't tell if that's meant to be a joke, or not.

No joke. No water, no hydrocarbon based life.
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makattak

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 09:10:00 AM »
No joke. No water, no hydrocarbon based life.

He's saying that how is the idea that having one element necessary for life as we know it means that if we find it, we can be sure (as NASA seems to be) of finding life?

I am clarifying because I'm confused about that, as well.
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charby

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 09:29:59 AM »
He's saying that how is the idea that having one element necessary for life as we know it means that if we find it, we can be sure (as NASA seems to be) of finding life?

I am clarifying because I'm confused about that, as well.

Water could be life, doesn't say if there is water their is life.

You need about 25 elements to have humanoid life.

Without water you can't have life as we know it. There is also a pretty sound theory that all over earth's water is extraterrestrial.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 09:36:49 AM »
He's saying that how is the idea that having one element necessary for life as we know it means that if we find it, we can be sure (as NASA seems to be) of finding life?

I am clarifying because I'm confused about that, as well.

Yes, something like that. These articles have become commonplace. "There may be water on planet such-and-such. Better give the astronauts some fishing poles, and a can of Off!"
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AJ Dual

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 09:38:27 AM »
The trouble is the loss of water to space.

Browse:

http://www.info.com/search?qkw=loss%20of%20water%20to%20space&qcat=web&r_cop=aylf&insp=%3Fpvaid%3D8fa7bf442a864b4cb7e325802ece01b5%26fcoid%3D300

On smaller bodies, this loss is greater, and there might not be any water left, only the evidence of it being there in the past.

Mars seems to have only a bit of dense CO2 left, whereas Jupiter's mass still retains even methane.

The body's temperature also plays a role in this loss rate.

That does indeed play a role. Mars dried out because it was smaller, cooled faster than the Earth, and lost it's magnetic field from it's once molten core, which allows the solar wind to strip atmosphere. UV light from the sun splits H2O and the hydrogen escapes to space.

OTOH, even smaller bodies, largely protected by ice, like the gas giants moons, such as Europa have more liquid water inside than all the surface water on Earth. Protected from space by the ice, and the core is continually tidally squeezed by the parent planet's large gravitational field, generating heat indefinitely. And it's unclear even here on Earth if life started on the surface in places like tidal pools, or if it started at the bottom of the ocean around geothermal vents.  If it started at the bottom of the ocean, sunlight might not even be a prerequisite.

Liquid water is a strong indicator of the potential of life, because at the temperature range of liquid water, and with carbon compounds, the chemistry is complex enough to support life. It does not automatically equal life, but it's a huge, if not the biggest prerequisite. And in typical journalistic hyperbole, the scientist excited that water enhances the possibility of finding life, it gets blown up into "water=aliens!" etc. by the journalist.

Others will go on about other potential chemistries like silicon, or in the liquid methane/ethane oceans of Titan, and that water/carbon is just an Earthly conceit based on confirmation bias. However, as our understanding of chemistry has grown, it's becoming more and more clear that the number of potential chemical combinations is much much lower, and the rates of formation (and destruction) of compounds/molecules is either too slow, or too high in other environments that are too cold, or too hot for liquid water.

Liquid water and carbon is the "sweet spot" in the Periodic Table where all the interesting stuff happens. We find that space is lousy with amino acids and other organic molecules, but without liquid water and the temperature range and pressure that supports it, they'll just sit there and do nothing.

And in terms of non-carbon chemistry, you're never going to get some analogue to RNA or DNA, or the complex array of protein synthesis from silicon in... I dunno, lava or whatever as an alternate working fluid.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 09:39:45 AM »
Water could be life, doesn't say if there is water their is life.

But in today's pop-science, life just grows spontaneously from every puddle of water.
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Ron

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 09:41:28 AM »
Yes, something like that. These articles have become commonplace. "There may be water on planet such-and-such. Better give the astronauts some fishing poles, and a can of Off!"

The articles are also full of suppositions, faith and hope.

Humans are religious, even the practitioners of scientism.
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charby

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 09:44:41 AM »
But in today's pop-science, life just grows spontaneously from every puddle of water.

I'm pretty sure they almost always say "could" not "does".
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MechAg94

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2015, 09:46:32 AM »
Finding alien life, like cold fusion and viable electric cars are always going to be just a few decades away.
Don't worry, they WILL find evidence of aliens, just like they found all that evidence of Global Warming.  If they believe it hard enough, they will find it.   =D
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AJ Dual

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2015, 09:54:46 AM »
Don't worry, they WILL find evidence of aliens, just like they found all that evidence of Global Warming.  If they believe it hard enough, they will find it.   =D

Fortunately, it's a bit more of a "it's there or it's not" kind of thing, rather than burying someone in a mass of massaged climate data and making whatever kind of graph you want out of it.

Either we find germs/fossils on Mars or we don't.

Either we find germs/life on Europa/Enceladus or we don't.

Either we get spectrograph lines of free oxygen or "otherwise impossible" CO2/Methane ratios from extrasolar planets or we don't.
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Ron

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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2015, 10:21:51 AM »
The universe is large enough that even if we don't find life it will be easy to keep hope alive.

 
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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2015, 10:23:29 AM »
OK, for serious you guys. What is with this idea that water = life?  ??? They just keep saying that in all these news articles.

It's an assumption, but as far as we know, you can't have life without water. Water directly equaling life is a stretch, but probably not an insane stretch.


As for finding alien life, meh. Space is very very big. And expanding. If there is no way to travel at significantly faster than the speed of life, there could be millions of alien civilizations that we'd never detect even if our civilization lasts for several million years.
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Re: Evidence of alien life expected in next few decades
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2015, 10:40:00 AM »
I think it's mathematically ridiculous to think there isn't other life in the universe. If people want to make the argument that there are no Minbari out there, that's an easier argument. To say there aren't at the very least, some microbes somewhere, on some planet or planetoid or moon, in some galaxy in the known universe, well, the odds are astronomical on the "no life" bet.

Like Millcreek, I hope I'm still around to see positive proof, even if it is only microscopic. It would be neat though, if the first image is of a Europan fish swimming in front of the probe camera.  :laugh:
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