Author Topic: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy  (Read 14472 times)

Ben

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Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« on: January 07, 2016, 01:31:55 PM »
Prime example of why so many lottery winners who started out poor eventually end up poor again. Bailing out the old Hot Sauce.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/07/188m-powerball-winner-has-risked-fortune-bailing-out-ex-con-boyfriend.html?intcmp=hpbt3
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 02:00:49 PM by Ben »
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wmenorr67

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 01:37:24 PM »
Imagine the only reason ole "Hot Sauce" is even given bail is because they have someone stupid enough to pay it. :rofl: :facepalm:

With Saturday's Powerball going to be north of $700 million...
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Ben

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 01:38:27 PM »
Oh yeah, "Hot Sauce" not "Hot Dog". That was insensitive of me. Fixed.  :lol:
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

K Frame

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 01:40:08 PM »
Of all of the "I blew my lottery winnings" stories I've seen, I really think that's the only one that evoked absolutely 0 pity or compassion from me. I mean, absolutely *expletive deleted*ing zero.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 01:45:59 PM »
Lucky != smart
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brimic

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 01:55:23 PM »
Lucky != smart


Yep.
People who play the lottery generally have zero math or finance skills.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 01:55:36 PM »
Hey look... I have more money than I could ever spend so I can buy that solid gold trailer house with the carbon fiber ceramic El Camino I've always wanted! Then I can loan my ex brother in law the ten mil he needs for the stick sharpening company he wants to build!

Brad
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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 01:56:04 PM »
Imagine the only reason ole "Hot Sauce" is even given bail is because they have someone stupid enough to pay it. :rofl: :facepalm:

With Saturday's Powerball going to be north of $700 million...

Ayep.  Normally I'd theoretically advocate cash settlement and then dumping it into an S&P500 or buying your own life annuity to prevent Lotto Winner idiot syndrome like previously linked. In this case, the lump sum is $428.4M. You're talking about a guaranteed extra $300 ish million over 30 years, which is crazy. Which is $174k per week, btw.

Reading that link, I am amazed why any human being would bail out such a significant other ONCE, let alone losing millions of dollars. You could essentially buy a virtually unlimited number of attractive persons for even a fraction of $188m.  Why the hell would you spend even $20 on someone named "Hot Sauce", let alone millions?


The lotto is essentially a tax on people who can't do math. Nothing wrong with gambling for recreation, out of recreational funds. I see it as hitting the casinos in Las Vegas or Eastern Europe. The odds are not in your favor, or it wouldn't exist. That said, tossing a couple bucks here and there is harmless. Assuming you can afford to blow the amount you flush down the drain. My department has an office pool, working out the numbers, I put roughly $250 in my 401k for every $1 I put into the lottery. Still would be smarter to put that extra $5 every other month into stocks. That said, if I was being fiscally responsible, I'd be reloading my own ammo more often.  :/
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brimic

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 01:58:37 PM »
GF sarcastically asked me the other day if I'm spending my check on lottery tickets...
I told her "no, winning it would turn me into a very very bad person."
She said "how?"
Me "I'd use it just to piss people off, for starters, I would keep going to work."
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MechAg94

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 02:05:04 PM »
Yep.
People who play the lottery generally have zero math or finance skills.
Not really.  Many of us know the odds and play it anyway just for kicks.  It isn't like I am applying a percentage of my income to lottery tickets.  It is a couple dollars.  The idiots are the ones who buy $150 in tickets with the idea that it effectively increases their odds of winning.  Generally I suck at gambling, but I still do it a little here and there.  

Fools and their money are soon parted.  It really doesn't matter how much money they start with.  The more money they have, the bigger target they have painted on their back.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 02:10:19 PM »
Reading that link, I am amazed why any human being would bail out such a significant other ONCE, let alone losing millions of dollars. You could essentially buy a virtually unlimited number of attractive persons for even a fraction of $188m.

She's not that bad looking.  Heck, I'd pretend to like her for ~$250k/yr plus expenses.

Me "I'd use it just to piss people off, for starters, I would keep going to work."

I worked with a guy who just couldn't sit around the house, even though he had $11M in his assorted retirement accounts.  He would take crappy jobs and work them for a few months just for the satisfaction of quitting, (generally with a large scene of telling management how incompetent they were - and considering he'd worked his way up from living in a crappy camper with no car to pull it by buying failing businesses, they really couldn't argue) knowing the paycheck wasn't worth a fart in a hurricane to his financial situation.

Ben

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 02:11:08 PM »
Not really.  Many of us know the odds and play it anyway just for kicks.  It isn't like I am applying a percentage of my income to lottery tickets.  It is a couple dollars.  The idiots are the ones who buy $150 in tickets with the idea that it effectively increases their odds of winning.  

Generally I suck at gambling, but I still do it a little here and there.  

Absolutely nothing wrong with playing the lottery if you have the discretionary money. Really no different than going to Vegas.

The extra big idiots are the ones who spend that $150 not for fun, but because they just have to strike it rich. The super extra big idiots are the ones who take their food and clothes money and spend it on lottery tickets. The super duper extra big idiots are the ones who take my money via EBT and spend it on lottery tickets.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Firethorn

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2016, 02:33:58 PM »
That said, if I was being fiscally responsible, I'd be reloading my own ammo more often.  :/

Time valuation.  Over a certain income level, it literally makes sense for somebody like a brain surgeon to employ an agent to take care of his bills, take the car in for maintenance, have groceries delivered, etc...

If you don't like making ammo, it's an expense, not income.

Fools and their money are soon parted.  It really doesn't matter how much money they start with.  The more money they have, the bigger target they have painted on their back.

I've said before that wealth often has more to do with spending habits than income.  You have Janitors making near minimum wage who die and leave over a million to the university they worked a lifetime at.  You have brain surgeons living a lower-middle class lifestyle because their spending habits are so horrible. 

Take somebody who wins the lottery, say, $100m.  They then don't buy a home, they get a loan for a $100M ultra-mansion paying 30% because they were and still are horrible credit subprime, despite the infusion of capital.

If they bought a relatively *modest* place, cash up front, for the down payment on the gold shithouse, they get a *nice house* that's still better than anything they've ever had, and they actually have a chance at keeping it.

I don't really play the lottery, but if I won a million or so and up, I'm hiring an accounting firm*, not some 'financial guru'.  Of the after-tax monies, 90% or so goes into investments, 10% towards either paying off my house or moving if the prize is large enough.

*less likely to bilk me, even if their normal rates are probably a bit higher.

Scout26

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2016, 02:40:25 PM »
Lucky != smart


This.  If you couldn't manage your finances before, you're not going to be able to manage them after.

I will throw a few bucks at them, but only on two conditions.  1) It has to be north of $200 million, and 2) I have to remember to buy a ticket.  

I did try to double my chances on this last one for $500 million by buying TWO tickets.  =D =D =D  

If I had to guess, I MAYBE spend $20-$30 a year on lottery tickets.  


In regards to the OP, I hope she recoups her money when he shows up in court.  I also  hope that the judge sends him a way for a long, long, long time so she doesn't lose any more money.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2016, 03:16:23 PM »
I don't really play the lottery, but if I won a million or so and up, I'm hiring an accounting firm*, not some 'financial guru'.  Of the after-tax monies, 90% or so goes into investments, 10% towards either paying off my house or moving if the prize is large enough.

Tax attorney and an investment advisor.  Cash up front on a nice 3/2 with a workshop, ($200k around here, if the workshop is more than a dirt-floored shell) a decent car and pickup, (lightly used car, beat to crap but mechanically sound pickup) and pay off some debts.  Still haven't hit $300k there.  $700k invested fairly safely still produces a nice annual income.

I'd be willing to prove it if someone will front, say, $5M.

K Frame

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 03:37:10 PM »
"Tax attorney and an investment advisor."

This.

Although I know enough about investing that I'd feel confident in handling that myself. The legal aspect of it? No.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 03:49:16 PM »
"Tax attorney and an investment advisor."

This.

Although I know enough about investing that I'd feel confident in handling that myself. The legal aspect of it? No.

Tax attorney, investment advisor/financial planner, estate/trust attorney, accounting firm. Audit firm attorney accountants... is more like it.

And I think a lot of it is just the sheer demographic numbers of who wins/plays the lottery the most. I think it's statistically tilted towards those with poor decision-making processes and bad fiscal habits to begin with. So the person who plans well with their winnings and disappears into a high-net-worth lifestyle/asset classes doesn't make the news.

GF sarcastically asked me the other day if I'm spending my check on lottery tickets...
I told her "no, winning it would turn me into a very very bad person."
She said "how?"
Me "I'd use it just to piss people off, for starters, I would keep going to work."


Considering I'm just a lowly IT guy at a financial firm, if I rolled a few hundred million into their funds, but kept working here at my job, that would be *expletive deleted*ing epic.  =D

I promise not to duck.

MechAg94

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 04:08:44 PM »
I have briefly considered the idea of continuing to work, but I know that about the 3rd... 2nd... 1st day I would wake up and just decide I wanted to be lazy or decide I wanted to go to the range after lunch instead of back to work.  When it really comes down to it, if you area responsible, you will be busy getting all your finances set up and learning what you need to know to make decisions at least the first few months.  Hard to continue doing your old job when you have plenty of other stuff to worry about.  Your priorities will change.

If the money winnings were really extreme, investment really isn't required.  You could literally stuff a matress and live off the principal if you wanted to.  Safe investments is the key at least with the base amount. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 04:12:33 PM »
Most of the lotto horror stories I have heard, the people were drunk, on drugs, couldn't say no, or were just stupidly gullible. 


I searched for "lottery horror stories" and came up with a bunch of links. 
http://www.popsugar.com/smart-living/Lottery-Horror-Stories-33026559

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RevDisk

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 04:16:45 PM »
Most of the lotto horror stories I have heard, the people were drunk, on drugs, couldn't say no, or were just stupidly gullible. 


I searched for "lottery horror stories" and came up with a bunch of links. 
http://www.popsugar.com/smart-living/Lottery-Horror-Stories-33026559

http://www.popsugar.com/smart-living/Good-Lottery-Stories-34701048

Apparently quite a few people did nice things with their money as well. Especially the guy who quit his job and went fishing.
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HankB

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2016, 04:35:36 PM »
I buy lotto tickets when the potential payoff approaches the odds against winning . . . and yes, I do know there are little things like taxes and - with increasing jackpots - an increasing chance that more than one winning ticket will be sold.

Still, I figure I'm "buying" an opportunity to dream big for a couple of days - until they announce that SOMEONE ELSE won MY jackpot, and reality comes crashing in.  :facepalm:

My total gambling expenditures - including lotto tickets - are probably no more than $50 or $60 per year; I can afford that.

If When I win - the first thing I'll do is set up a budget. Oh, it'll be MUCH larger than my current budget - but a budget nonetheless. I'm not going to buy a Gulfstream or take a castle off Nicholas Cage's nearly bankrupt hands, but I do expect my lifestyle will change quite a bit.
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Scout26

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 04:36:01 PM »
Tax attorney, investment advisor/financial planner, estate/trust attorney, accounting firm. Audit firm attorney accountants... is more like it.

Yep, I know that if I found out I won a fairly substantial pile, first thing I would do is head down to San Antonio and spend a couple of days with USAA, long before even cashing in the ticket.  I'd want everything setup and in place with their best advice as to how to handle my new wealth.

Considering I'm just a lowly IT guy at a financial firm, if I rolled a few hundred million into their funds, but kept working here at my job, that would be *expletive deleted*ing epic.  =D

As my Dad always said "Borrow a dollar from the bank and the bank owns you.  Borrow a million from the bank and you own the bank."
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
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Firethorn

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2016, 04:43:16 PM »
Still haven't hit $300k there.  $700k invested fairly safely still produces a nice annual income.

I already have the truck, don't need an additional car, and I can afford to wait a few years for the fancy house.

If the award is right at $1M, then I'm staying put.  $5M, now I'm buying a new house.

Tax attorney, investment advisor/financial planner, estate/trust attorney, accounting firm. Audit firm attorney accountants... is more like it.

Do these have to be different businesses, or are at least some financial firms 'one stop shops'?

KD5NRH

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2016, 04:54:59 PM »
If the money winnings were really extreme, investment really isn't required.  You could literally stuff a matress and live off the principal if you wanted to.  Safe investments is the key at least with the base amount.

Yup, but I'd want to plan for my kids in some not-just-forking-over-what's-left way.  Something like they get x% of it every month that they work more than y hours at a productive job, with enhancements for longer hours and higher-skilled jobs.  More money opens up more options for that, as well as increasing the total incentive to spend at least a few years working at something meaningful, so if they do blow their inheritance on silly crap, they have skills and experience to fall back on.  Once we're talking tens of millions, taking reasonable risks with 20-50% of it is more justifiable.

KD5NRH

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Re: Why Lottery Winners so Rarely Remain Wealthy
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2016, 04:57:45 PM »
Do these have to be different businesses, or are at least some financial firms 'one stop shops'?

As I understand it, most tax attorneys will want to handle the delegation of pretty much all the accounting side.  Worthwhile ones are open to outside auditing, but they don't want to be left cleaning up unexpected messes brought on by unfamiliar accountants.