Author Topic: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....  (Read 1972 times)

Scout26

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Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« on: January 29, 2018, 12:18:24 AM »
Your self-proclaimed emotional support animal has made it so we can't have nice things.

For years, true service animals flew for the most part without issue (and when there were they were as rare a hen's teeth)  Then came the rise of "emotional support" animals.  Often will no training other then "I wuvs my pookums."

So now we have a wide variety of critters crappin', pissin', and biting other passengers.

Delta has said "ENOUGH !!!"  If you want fly with your critter, you need to present documentation of training and vaccinations.  Along with something from your doc explaining why you need it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airplane-mode/delta-imposes-new-guidelines-service-animals-allowed-board-n839186
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 04:21:24 PM by Amy Schumer »
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 02:30:30 AM »
Good.  I hope other businesses follow Delta's lead. I'm sick and tired of seeing people with their pain-in-the-ass "support" animals abusing the system.   I've come close to being bitten by more than one scrawny little rat dog sitting in the shopping cart at a couple different grocery stores.   I know the ADA allows the business to ask if the animal is required because of a disability, and what specific task the animal has been trained to perform. But everyone is scared of "offending" the special little snowflakes, so I've got glorified rats in purses going after me while I'm trying to get my groceries.

Here's the relevant law RE: domestic air carriers.  Hopefully everyone else starts to follow suit:

Air Travel
The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) requires airlines to allow service animals and emotional support animals to accompany their handlers in the cabin of the aircraft.

Service animals – For evidence that an animal is a service animal, air carriers may ask to see identification cards, written documentation, presence of harnesses or tags, or ask for verbal assurances from the individual with a disability using the animal. If airline personnel are uncertain that an animal is a service animal, they may ask one of the following:

1. What tasks or functions does your animal perform for you?

2. What has your animal been trained to do for you?

3. Would you describe how the animal performs this task for you? 15

Emotional support and psychiatric service animals – Individuals who travel with emotional support animals or psychiatric service animals may need to provide specific documentation to establish that they have a disability and the reason the animal must travel with them. Individuals who wish to travel with their emotional support or psychiatric animals should contact the airline ahead of time to find out what kind of documentation is required.

Examples of documentation that may be requested by the airline: Current documentation (not more than one year old) on letterhead from a licensed mental health professional stating (1) the passenger has a mental health-related disability listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); (2) having the animal accompany the passenger is necessary to the passenger’s mental health or treatment; (3) the individual providing the assessment of the passenger is a licensed mental health professional and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and (4) the date and type of the mental health professional’s license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.16 This documentation may be required as a condition of permitting the animal to accompany the passenger in the cabin.

Other animals – According to the ACAA, airlines are not required otherwise to carry animals of any kind either in the cabin or in the cargo hold. Airlines are free to adopt any policy they choose regarding the carriage of pets and other animals (for example, search and rescue dogs) provided that they comply with other applicable requirements (for example, the Animal Welfare Act).

Animals such as miniature horses, pigs, and monkeys may be considered service animals. A carrier must decide on a case-by-case basis according to factors such as the animal’s size and weight; state and foreign country restrictions; whether or not the animal would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others; or cause a fundamental alteration in the cabin service.17 Individuals should contact the airlines ahead of travel to find out what is permitted.

Airlines are not required to transport unusual animals such as snakes, other reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders. Foreign carriers are not required to transport animals other than dogs.18
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Fly320s

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 06:34:14 AM »
Good for Delta.  I hope my airline adopts the more stringent policies.

As for emotional support animals... If a person needs such an animal to fly, then that person probably shouldn't be flying.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 07:04:44 AM »
It's about time.

I was astonished this year to see large numbers of "service animals" wandering around the SHOT Show. There may have been a few there in years past, but I don't remember seeing any at any prior SHOT Show I attended. This year they were everywhere. The whole thing is a scam, IMHO. At least at the show this year all the [alleged] service animals were dogs -- no miniature horses, goats, turtles, alligators, or any of the other species people have claimed they "need" as service animals.

I wonder how Delta's policy is going to hold up. I have read multiple articles that said the law doesn't require any training or certification, and therefore property owners can't ask for any such certification as a prerequisite to allowing the purported service animals to enter.

Quote
Noting that it has “long been concerned with the abuse and fraud of animals purporting to be service or support animals,” the American Council of the Blind also said Delta’s revised policy discriminates against passengers with legitimate service dogs and makes travel more difficult for individuals who rely on their service animals for travel.

“I sympathize with the airlines,” said Pat Pound, a disability consultant who is blind and travels with a guide dog. “More people are cheating. Airlines are trying to maintain the system. But I don’t think Delta’s new policies will address the problem. And, as a person with a disability, I’ll end up being penalized.”

If you so-called advocates have been aware of the abuse problem for so long, why haven't YOU done something about it before it reached the tipping point and Delta had to institute these rules?
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dogmush

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 07:39:51 AM »
It's worth remembering that "Service Animals" and "Emotional Support Animals" are two distinct categories in US law.

Here's what the Air Carrier Access Act says about Emotional Support Animals:

Quote from: 14 CFR 382.117 (e)
If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following:

(1) The passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders—Fourth Edition (DSM IV);

(2) The passenger needs the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination;

(3) The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and

(4) The date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.

Basically, for a Service Animal (as defined under the ADA) they have to take your word, or the dog's vest, that it's a service animal.  For an Emotional Support Animal, there is much more onus on the traveler to make sure the documents are in order, and up to date.

I have a buddy that has a support dog for PTSD (not the guy from this board), and he gets his paperwork updated yearly by his docs so that he can have all his ducks in a row while flying.  Entertainingly enough, his dog is a Lab that wears a vest, so everyone just assumes it's a Service Dog.

K Frame

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 07:48:27 AM »
Those BASTARDS!

Fernando, my emotional support barracuda, has hardly bitten anyone!
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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2018, 08:36:35 AM »
A couple of years ago I had the idea to get an emotional support animal to bring with me when I work.  I wonder how that would play out with the FAA.
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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2018, 08:53:55 AM »
We encounter this problem in healthcare too: accommodating service as opposed to emotional support animals.
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grampster

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2018, 08:56:02 AM »
Shoot.  And here I was going to buy just one airline ticket but bring along Swmbo as my "emotional support" critter.

One thing I notice in Florida, and more in KW than anywhere else, is that there are more dogs than people.   90% of those dogs are the little, sniveling, trembling, yappy, bad attitude dogs or the small whitish looking ones with a serious underbite problem.
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dogmush

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2018, 08:56:54 AM »
It's not helped by the fact that folks with Emotional Support Animals are often ignorant of the law, think they have a Service Animal, and read on Facebook that you HAVE to let them do "X".

Blakenzy

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2018, 10:06:14 AM »
If the owner is not blind or is not in a wheelchair/has severe mobility impairment it doesn't count as a service animal. Simple enough.

Emotional support animal?  :lol: Here boy, fetch me my LOL bottle for I have expended all my lulz and need a refill..
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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM »
I was at a restaurant just last week, typical neighborhood place where I'm a regular. They sit me with my sweet tea, often in one of the three same booths, and often don't even bring me a menu unless I ask cause I'm there at least 1-2 times a week. "Ya-ya" (the wife side of the husband and wife owners, nice older Greek couple that still move like they're in their 20's) has insisted I have a to go box of something "for lunch tomorrow." That sorta place.

So I was rather PO'd when some jerk off and shy looking wife (you know the sort, been verbally beaten down by an ahole husband for the past 20 years? She was the picture perfect image of such) came in with their little mongrel and the owner politely told them they could have a dog in the restaurant. "CALL THE POLICE! ITS A SERVICE ANIMAL! THE ADA SAYS I CAN!" Their mongrel proceeded to be an annoying little creature, and twice in it's fidgeting sent the handle of it's retractable leash across the table knocking drinks over. I'm pretty sure the anxious little creature was the one in need of emotional support.

So, good on Delta. I can't stand that BS. And such experiences as last week's seem to have become the rule rather than the exception in the land of service/emotional support animals.

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dogmush

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2018, 10:31:50 AM »
If the owner is not blind or is not in a wheelchair/has severe mobility impairment it doesn't count as a service animal. Simple enough.

Emotional support animal?  :lol: Here boy, fetch me my LOL bottle for I have expended all my lulz and need a refill..

That is not a true statement.

Service animals are "trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability".  A prime example of one that would appear normal is a seizure disorder dog, while a seizure is not happening.

MechAg94

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2018, 11:21:06 AM »
Quote
“Customers have attempted to fly with comfort turkeys, gliding possums known as sugar gliders, snakes, spiders and more,” Delta said in the statement. “Ignoring the true intent of existing rules governing the transport of service and support animals can be a disservice to customers who have real and documented needs.”
I am sorry, but your emotional support spider/snake is going to disturb the emotions of other passengers. 
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lupinus

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2018, 11:53:37 AM »
Unless your emotional distress is bugs wtf emotional support can one get from a *expletive deleted*ing spider?

This is why we can't have nice things.

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cordex

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2018, 02:16:49 PM »
I am sorry, but your emotional support spider/snake is going to disturb the emotions of other passengers. 
On the other hand, assuming you brought enough dressing and pumpkin pie, the "comfort turkey" might make you the hero of row 24.

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2018, 03:06:52 PM »
I'n so socially anxious that I throw up when around people unless I have my companion animal, Mac who is a American born and bred yak. I have a right to travel so I don't see why I'm not allowed to fly with my anti-yak Yank-yak Mac.
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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2018, 04:13:11 PM »
I'n so socially anxious that I throw up when around people unless I have my companion animal, Mac who is a American born and bred yak. I have a right to travel so I don't see why I'm not allowed to fly with my anti-yak Yank-yak Mac.

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grampster

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2018, 09:40:13 PM »
^^^^^Don't we all? :rofl:
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Andiron

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2018, 10:13:33 PM »
Good for Delta.  I hope my airline adopts the more stringent policies.

As for emotional support animals... If a person needs such an animal to fly, then that person probably shouldn't be flying.

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**** 'em,  the entire lot with ESAs.  I'd say a minority has ruined it for the rest,  but there more I see,  the more I'm convinced they're all aholes.

Service animals, fine.  Emotional service?  GTFO.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 10:42:53 PM »
On the other hand, assuming you brought enough dressing and pumpkin pie, the "comfort turkey" might make you the hero of row 24.

As long as the on-board microwave is large enough and the flight long enough to roast, carve, and serve a turkey.
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just Warren

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2018, 10:48:38 PM »
Deep frying would be faster.
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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 10:51:49 PM »
A couple of years ago I had the idea to get an emotional support animal to bring with me when I work.  I wonder how that would play out with the FAA.

Only if you use a German Shepherd and insist on wearing dark glasses at all times.

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2018, 10:53:26 PM »
I am sorry, but your emotional support spider/snake is going to disturb the emotions of other passengers. 

You have no idea how much a honey badger could improve my emotional state in many public places.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Meanwhile, over on Delta Flights....
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 11:17:01 PM »
A couple of years ago I had the idea to get an emotional support animal to bring with me when I work.  I wonder how that would play out with the FAA.

Immediately pictured you walking past the waiting passengers at the gate with dark glasses, white cane, and led by a "guide" dog....  :D
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