Author Topic: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad  (Read 4209 times)

Ben

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Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« on: December 31, 2019, 08:37:13 AM »
Pro-Iranian "mourners" (as the NYT calls them, despite the camo and weapons) are attempting to breach the US Embassy in Baghdad. While hoping our people will be okay, it will be interesting to see how different this turns out than Benghazi. I'm thinking the US response under the current admin will not be arresting a youtube video guy.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/12/31/as-pro-iran-militants-vow-to-kill-every-employee-at-the-u-s-embassy-in-baghdad-the-nyt-ap-and-twitter-call-these-people-mourners/
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2019, 10:32:48 AM »
It should be an interesting contrast between Trump's response to diplomats under threat to Obama's lack of response and subsequent pass the buck routine and accompanied lies.
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brimic

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2019, 10:53:12 AM »
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

HankB

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2019, 12:33:46 PM »
According to a news story I saw this morning, what amounts to an Iraqi street gang tore down the front gate and occupied the embassy grounds without any resistance from the supposed marines guarding the embassy. So far, they hadn't taken any U.S. personnel hostage.

I vaguely remember news stories that the new US Embassy in Iraq was the most "secure" in the world. The way the story is shaping up now, it would seem otherwise. In that part of the world, NO front gate should be subject to compromise by a "crowd" . . . bulldozers and explosives maybe, but not pedestrians, no matter how numerous.

Some coverage of the attack: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7839679/US-embassy-Baghdad-evacuated-angry-Iraqi-protesters-descend-complex.html

Seems like judicious use of something like 7.62mm miniguns would work wonders.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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WLJ

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2019, 12:44:41 PM »
Release the hogs!
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BobR

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2019, 12:55:05 PM »
According to a news story I saw this morning, what amounts to an Iraqi street gang tore down the front gate and occupied the embassy grounds without any resistance from the supposed marines guarding the embassy. So far, they hadn't taken any U.S. personnel hostage.

I vaguely remember news stories that the new US Embassy in Iraq was the most "secure" in the world. The way the story is shaping up now, it would seem otherwise. In that part of the world, NO front gate should be subject to compromise by a "crowd" . . . bulldozers and explosives maybe, but not pedestrians, no matter how numerous.

Some coverage of the attack: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7839679/US-embassy-Baghdad-evacuated-angry-Iraqi-protesters-descend-complex.html

Seems like judicious use of something like 7.62mm miniguns would work wonders.


ROE developed by politicians and Political Generals, all it has ever accomplished is get our people taken hostage, maimed or killed. Release the hounds or get out if you won't let them take care of themselves.

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HankB

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2019, 01:02:53 PM »
Release the hogs!
WAR CRIME! WAR CRIME! PIGS AND MOSLEMS! IMPEACH TRUMP!
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

dogmush

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2019, 01:12:52 PM »
HankB's linked article is remarkably inaccurate, even by the standards of today's news media.  I can tell you they didn't break down the gate, they went over the wall, and by the time they managed that the Embassy forces had properly utilized the built in defense in depth and were safe, and able to control the incursion.



I would also take this moment to remind the folks itching on triggers and bloviating that this protest/riot was caused by us blowing *expletive deleted*it up and killing people. Specifically doing so without bothering to involve the government of the country we did it in. They're a little pissed.

Killing more of them unless in direct self defense is somewhere in the spectrum between pretty *expletive deleted*ing stupid and so moronaically dumb that it threatens the intelligence of folks around you,

We are trying NOT to kick the war back off, remember? This is very much a situation in which we can find ourselves tradeing shots with Iraq and Iran pretty easily.

WLJ

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 01:56:03 PM »
WAR CRIME! WAR CRIME! PIGS AND MOSLEMS! IMPEACH TRUMP!

Porkgate
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freakazoid

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 02:00:07 PM »
HankB's linked article is remarkably inaccurate, even by the standards of today's news media.  I can tell you they didn't break down the gate, they went over the wall, and by the time they managed that the Embassy forces had properly utilized the built in defense in depth and were safe, and able to control the incursion.



I would also take this moment to remind the folks itching on triggers and bloviating that this protest/riot was caused by us blowing *expletive deleted*it up and killing people. Specifically doing so without bothering to involve the government of the country we did it in. They're a little pissed.

Killing more of them unless in direct self defense is somewhere in the spectrum between pretty *expletive deleted*ing stupid and so moronaically dumb that it threatens the intelligence of folks around you,

We are trying NOT to kick the war back off, remember? This is very much a situation in which we can find ourselves tradeing shots with Iraq and Iran pretty easily.

And what was blown up and who was killed?
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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HankB

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 03:04:45 PM »
HankB's linked article is remarkably inaccurate, even by the standards of today's news media.  I can tell you they didn't break down the gate, they went over the wall, and by the time they managed that the Embassy forces had properly utilized the built in defense in depth and were safe, and able to control the incursion.

I would also take this moment to remind the folks itching on triggers and bloviating that this protest/riot was caused by us blowing *expletive deleted*it up and killing people. Specifically doing so without bothering to involve the government of the country we did it in. They're a little pissed.
That's right, the pictures show the "incursion" was perfectly under control.

Weren't our strikes in response to an Iranian-backed terrorist attack? And involving what laughably passes for a "government" of the country we did it in would be no more than telegraphing our intent and giving our targets a warning.

And as for them being a little pissed . . cry me a river.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

brimic

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2019, 04:03:38 PM »
Isn't an attack on a US Embassy and attack on the US?
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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zxcvbob

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2019, 04:22:44 PM »
Isn't an attack on a US Embassy an attack on the US?

Yes, but an attack by whom?  I have no problem with us shooting whoever scales the wall as soon as they hit the ground on our side.  If we can contain the situation without shooting anyone that's probably better. 
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Ron

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2019, 04:43:23 PM »
And what was blown up and who was killed?

The US military blew up and killed some Shiites in an airstrike within Iraq without getting permission.

I'm in favor of pulling out of pretty much all of the ME.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7839679/US-embassy-Baghdad-evacuated-angry-Iraqi-protesters-descend-complex.html
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

brimic

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"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

brimic

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
The US military blew up and killed some Shiites in an airstrike within Iraq without getting permission.

I'm in favor of pulling out of pretty much all of the ME.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7839679/US-embassy-Baghdad-evacuated-angry-Iraqi-protesters-descend-complex.html

That. Defense should be used for OUR national defense, not destabilizing the middle east for others to take advantage of.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

MechAg94

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2019, 09:52:30 PM »
That. Defense should be used for OUR national defense, not destabilizing the middle east for others to take advantage of.
At some point I wouldn't mind testing the theory that the reason they hate us is because we are over there.
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Andiron

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2019, 10:33:21 PM »
The US military blew up and killed some Shiites in an airstrike within Iraq without getting permission.

I'm in favor of pulling out of pretty much all of the ME.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7839679/US-embassy-Baghdad-evacuated-angry-Iraqi-protesters-descend-complex.html

This.

Whoever was in charge of the MSG contingent did well.  

I have no doubt they would've stacked the bodies if needed.  In a perfect world,  they would've done that to this motley bunch of aholes,  but we don't live in that magnificent place.  After Benghazi,  I don't see any embassy going down short of a Rourke's Drift last stand.
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HankB

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2019, 11:09:11 PM »
. . .  I don't see any embassy going down short of a Rourke's Drift last stand.
Rourke's Drift didn't go down, and the Zulu attackers were stacked up by the hundreds.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

dogmush

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2020, 03:57:06 AM »
That's right, the pictures show the "incursion" was perfectly under control.

Weren't our strikes in response to an Iranian-backed terrorist attack? And involving what laughably passes for a "government" of the country we did it in would be no more than telegraphing our intent and giving our targets a warning.

And as for them being a little pissed . . cry me a river.

It was.  Actually still is for the most part, as things are still ongoing.

I know that an appeal to authority is a lazy debate strategy, but here we go:  I have actually been in that building in the last 4 months, have seen the defenseive emplacement, and the gate that the Iraqi's came through.  It looks all kinds of chaotic on the TV news, and with pictures from news agencies, but the DOD and embassy marines are not stupid.  We know what protests in the Mideast look like, how fast they can pop up, and the ways militia groups hide inside crowds.  The embassy was built with all that in mind and, so far, all that planning has worked really well, because the crowd is venting their spleen against *expletive deleted*it that does not matter, US personnel are all safe, and we have decent freedom of movement in and out of the Embassy Compound.  All of that is open source, and can be found if you look.

As far as shooting, seriously, just stop.  If we shoot into that crowd without actual dead (or kidnapped) Americans we have started the war in Iraq back up.  Not the BS thing we have now, but full on circa 2012 we are going to war.  Probably with a sprinkling of shooting at Iranian ships as well. I understand that the vast majority of Americans neither understand not care about the intricacies of the relationships between the Iraqi government (which IS a thing, despite your sneering) the Iranian Government, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and the various militia's that are recognized as legitimate by the Iraqi Government. Those relationships exist however, and unless we are actually going home those of us on the ground need to work with them, which can't be done if you shoot protesters.

As far as leaving?  *expletive deleted*ck it, let's go.  I'm more of a proponent than pretty much all of you.  I have left nothing over here that necessitates my regular return, and yet here I am.  The US has civilian control of the military though, so this is y'all's war.  Get the civilian leadership to actually tell us to come home, and we'll be out faster then you can imagine.  Call your congressperson.

Ron

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2020, 08:47:05 AM »
America has been voting for Dems and Repubs that promised no nation building, bringing the troops home from the ME and strong border security pretty regularly.

Our civilian government, voting and democracy in general is just kubaki theater.

The real power is behind the scenes.

If they want war they will drive us into a war, votes be damned.





For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Ben

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2020, 09:35:11 AM »
It appears that so far (regardless of if what started it was handled well), the US response has been handled well, at least from what I have read. This is not (yet) the shooting war of Benghazi, so it seems appropriate that a show of strength rather than force (the helos and bringing in Marines), plus some tear gas, seem to be appropriate for what actually is an, albeit violent, protest. Especially given that our personnel seem to be safe in a secure area. From what Dogmush posted, the breached areas seem to be the "ablative armor" if you will, of the compound - areas expected to be sacrificed.

The strength is there and on display, with the implied threat of escalation to force if things get out of hand. You have to wonder (or not) how Benghazi would have turned out had we showed this much strength this early.
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Ben

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2020, 03:06:08 PM »
Protestors have all pulled out. It appears that if an Embassy calls for help, and you actually send them support, it can de-escalate a situation. So much for the lefty "Trump's Benghazi" talking point.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2020, 11:07:35 PM »
Protestors have all pulled out. It appears that if an Embassy calls for help, and you actually send them support, it can de-escalate a situation. So much for the lefty "Trump's Benghazi" talking point.

"Trump's Benghazi" is fine with me. As in, Trump's Benghazi is the one where none of our ambassadors got Reavered.
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MechAg94

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Re: Potential Embassy Breach in Baghdad
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 11:07:40 AM »
https://cnsnews.com/article/international/patrick-goodenough/iran-backed-iraqi-militias-vow-retaliate-after-us-military
Here is an article on the US air strikes that are supposed to have triggered this.
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