Should religious leaders report child abuse?

[MillCreek]

I used to say this to the providers all the time back when I was at the medmal defense law firm, and they would comment on the different standards for the legal and medical professions: the lawyers write the laws. 

[Ron]

So playing devil's childrens and God's advocate, what's the difference between an attorney and a priest?

If it really is about protecting innocent children, and you, as an attorney have a client that tells you he is in fact guilty of sexually assaulting children, shouldn't you immediately drop him as a client and report what he told you (different from representing a client that claims innocence)? How does attorney-client privilege trump priest-confessor privilege, other than we, in the US, just decided it did? I mean, wouldn't a defense attorney in Japan turn his client in?

FIFY

[MillCreek]

If it really is about protecting innocent children, and you, as an attorney have a client that tells you he is in fact guilty of sexually assaulting children, shouldn't you immediately drop him as a client and report what he told you (different from representing a client that claims innocence)?

Let me preface this by stating that other than criminal law classes, this is not an area that I have ever worked in. I went out and retained criminal law defense counsel for some of my healthcare clients, but that was it.  Criminals confess their crimes to their attorneys all the time.  You generally cannot report that without breaching attorney-client privilege.  The primary goal of the criminal defense attorney is to ensure that the client gets competent representation in the adversarial justice system through a fair criminal proceeding that follows Constitutional rules.  The determination of guilt or innocence is up to that proceeding.  

In some situations, you can withdraw from the case and ABA model rules of professional conduct talks about this: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_1_16_declining_or_terminating_representation/comment_on_rule_1_16_declining_or_terminating_representation/.  Especially in a criminal case, you generally have to get the permission of the Court to withdraw, and the Court is going to want to hear a really good reason.

[Hawkmoon]

I got an e-mail back from my Episcopalian minister friend. Please keep in mind that he is a Hispanic missionary to a church in the U.S. and his English is less than fluent, but he answered in English so this is not my translation. Make of it what you will:

At the Roman Church and other confessions secret of confession is canonical affirmed. This is the main problem. They obligated by the Cannon Law. In the Episcopal Church we have public confession. This that I practice. I, even when this Church permit private confession, I do not receive it. If it is the result of private CONVERSATION no confession, I may suggest to him/her to go to the police and confess the crime.

What I believe he is saying is that he does view the mandatory reporter law for clergy to be a conflict with canon law regarding the sanctity of private confession. Since he is Episcopalian rather than Roman Catholic, apparently he has chosen to resolve the conflict by not hearing private confessions. I don't think that's an option that's available to Roman Catholic priests.

[gunsmith]

born/baptized/first communion/confirmation Catholic.
 However, I have not attended a Catholic Mass since the early 2000's - for a few yrs very serious in  small evangelical church - now simply reading the Bible because
no fellowship from AA to Christianity ever makes me feel really welcome.

 Should religious leaders report "child abuse"
it depends on quite a bit, if you're in the Catholic Church and the Priest is hearing confession?
nope, that Priest needs to keep his mouth shut. If its really horrible, the Priest should forgive him and hire the local mafia to kill the abuser ( I'm reasonably certain this has happened before ) or kill the S.O.B himself - but he needs to keep his mouth shut, because that's the deal.

the big book of AA talks about this too, "find someone who can keep a confidence" ....
 
I'm no lawyer or theologian - but I'm sure that its presumed the confessor feels tremendous guilt, is certain he is condemned, desperately wants to change or already has.

 When I was baptized as an adult, the Pastor heard my confession but warned me before hand that he would tell the cops if it was of a criminal nature.
if the deal is "your confessions are secret" then that has to be the deal.

Yeah, it really sucks, but if your God can't change you into some one better, your God did not have the power to create the universe, create light, raise people from the dead etc.

let the cops be cops let the Priest be Priest

[Ron]

Confession in the Bible is between you and God or you and the congregation publicly.

RC confession is a tradition, not scriptural.

If you wonder how the pedophile priest mess could happen or decades of payoffs from the boy scouts look no further.

Becoming an accomplice in evil through silence is not of God.

[Hawkmoon]

Confession in the Bible is between you and God or you and the congregation publicly.

RC confession is a tradition, not scriptural.

If you wonder how the pedophile priest mess could happen or decades of payoffs from the boy scouts look no further.

Becoming an accomplice in evil through silence is not of God.

No, the RC problem of pedophile priests became a problem because the Church, as the "authority having jurisdiction," didn't take action to remove known pedophiles from contact with children. Instead, they just shuffled problem priests from one parish to another to try to keep the problem under wraps.

That's very different from a priest hearing a confession from someone over whose life and employment he has no control.

[Ron]

It is a problem if a pedophile becomes known to somebody and he isn't investigated, arrested and punished.

"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

Where is the justice for the victim?

There is no repentance or restitution if the thing is kept secret and there are no consequences for the evil perpetrated.

There is no higher principal that excuses one from culpability if you participate in allowing a predator of children to escape justice.

Is breaking a vow of confidence a greater sin than allowing a predator of children to escape justice?

There is no chapter or verse to justify such an abomination.

Repentance and forgiveness can be found while locked up.

We can agree to disagree. I'll try and restrain myself from commenting on this going forward. I believe my position has been made clear so I won't belabor the point.

[gunsmith]

 All of you guys in the majority, that religion shouldn't exempt one from being reported - I agree.
 At the same time, I wouldn't want the RC Church to be forced into reporting.

 Evil is everywhere, its in the MCC where Epstein "died" its in the churches, its in AA, its in GMC, Ford and Toyota....
Everywhere.

 in my opinion, its impossible to escape justice, its like escaping gravity.
One may use the laws of gravity to fly, one may use the spiritual laws to oppress, but when all is said and done, you pay one way or another.
Its gratifying to see evil people have a necktie party and I would like to have seen certain people swing - but I know I don't need to see it to know justice is always done .
As above so below.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

people who confess horrible crimes may escape the criminal justice system, they never escape the spiritual and physical laws of the universe.

[MechAg94]

First, I am Protestant so I don't see it the same way.  If a Priest knows that more crimes/sins will be committed, does that change the obligation?  IMO, there is a difference between someone confessing they did something in the past and won't do it again versus someone who did something and will likely do it again.  The child deserves protection from more abuse.  I think that overrides any vows. 

When the crime/sin involves preying on other people, I don't see how the Priest can keep quiet and not take some action.