Author Topic: Oil Change Valves  (Read 2389 times)

mgdavis

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Oil Change Valves
« on: May 02, 2020, 10:50:56 AM »
Several months back I decided that I was tired of paying other people to do oil changes on my truck and Jeep. The dealership that I was taking my truck to while is was under warranty takes hours to finish the job, and quit throwing in the free car wash that was an incentive. I have taken the Wrangler to a local place that lets you stay in the vehicle and watch the action in the pit on a tv screen, but I have serious trust issues with mechanics, especially after the last visit when the gal in the pit had to stop about three times to ask her lead questions (how hard is it to remove a drain plug and filter?).

In support of easy and mess free driveway oil changes I ordered a pair of Fumoto valves. As of a couple of weeks ago I have only managed to install one, and I think that I wasted $68.90 by making the purchase.

The Fumoto valve and similar EZ Oil Drain valve are clever little bits of engineering that replace the drain plug of a vehicle with a valve assembly. The valve body accommodates a hose, so when it is time to drain the oil you can direct the waste oil into a container; my vision was to use the oil jugs from the previous service as receptacles. On the surface it all seemed like a great way to neatly transport and dispose of the waste oil.

The first oil change to come due was on my F-250, which has the 6.7 liter diesel engine. Knowing that the 13 quarts of oil in that sump was going to be too much for my little oil change pan to handle I found an orange Home Depot 5 gallon bucket with lid in the garage and shoved that under the truck. I was pleased to find that it fit with room to spare, allowing me to fill it with dirty oil and then drag it back out upright. As I carefully loosened the drain plug over the bucket I was successful in directing every drop of oil into the bucket while simultaneously managing not to drop the plug into the rapidly filling vessel. Once the oil was completely drained and the filter was replaced I was ready to install the shiny brass F106N drain valve. I consulted the included installation instructions, which directed me to hand tighten the valve and then add 1/8 to 1/4 turn by using a crescent wrench. Easy. I threaded the valve into the oil pan until the fiber washer contacted the pan, and then added torque until the valve stopped rotating. I then picked up my Crescent brand adjustable wrench and started applying that 1/8 to 1/4 turn to crush the gasket and complete the seal. As the valve spun in, quite easily I might add, I eyed where I wanted the lever to end up. It seemed that 1/4 turn would get it into a vertical orientation with the lever at 12 o'clock. Just as I was coming to the end of the rotation I saw a split suddenly appear in the fiber washer!  :facepalm: I removed my now useless valve and reinstalled the factory plug, grateful that I noticed the damage prior to pouring gallons of new oil into the engine only to see it dripping to the driveway through the broken seal.

I contacted Fumoto to request a replacement gasket. The response was prompt and helpful, and contained different instructions for tightening the valve  >:D:

Quote
   

Sarah (Fumoto)

Jan 2, 4:47 PM EST
Hello Mike,
Thank you for contacting us

We are more than happy to send you a replacement gasket washer.
We will ship it out today in a standard envelope.

Please note that the most common reason for a gasket washer to break it over torquing .
How much should I torque my Fumoto valve?

If you have nay questions, please feel free to contact us.
We will be happy to help.

Thank you for choosing Fumoto!

Help center: https://help.fumotooildrainvalve.com/hc/en-us

Warm Regards,
Sarah Rubin
Fumoto Online Store
www.fumotooildrainvalve.com

A few months elapsed until the weather here in Seattle dried out again and my motivation lined up with an oil change interval on the Wrangler's straight-6. after driving the car up onto ramps I found that, once again, I was able to slide my Homer bucket under the oil pan with room left over to turn a wrench. I drained the old oil and swapped filters, then read the installation instructions for the F101SX that I had selected for this application. I picked the SX-series valve because the configuration seemed more flexible, and I wanted to be able to adjust the angle of the valve body to maximize ground clearance. I was comforted by the o-ring seals, which are more forgiving than the flat fiber washer that I had destroyed on the other valve. I wiped the area around the drain hole clean, and then threaded in the valve assembly. As the threads engaged I found that the valve would not seat fully in my chosen orientation, the contour of the oil pan contacted the body of the valve prematurely. I moved the assembly around until I found an angle that caused no interference and then continued torquing it down. Fortunately nothing else unexpected happened and a good seal was formed. I completed the oil change, cleared away the detritus of plastic and cardboard containers, and started up the Jeep. Once running, I peered below to check for leaks. As I processed what lay before me it dawned on me that the valve I had installed was now the lowest point on the vehicle, jutting down from the oil pan at a 45 degree angle for almost two inches. The unforeseen interference had caused me to rotate the assembly down into harms way. No leaks were present, so I left the Fumoto valve installed where it was.

So far I have not actually used the Fumoto valves to drain oil from a vehicle. I have no doubt that when I do the next oil change on the Jeep the valve will function as designed, and the hose (purchased as an accessory) will direct oil into empty oil containers. Is this convenience worth the investment?

From my experience thus far I am convinced that I have wasted $70. I found that I can use a 5 gallon bucket to collect and transport the used oil with nary a drop spilled. The factory oil plugs are robust and low profile, whereas the Fumoto valve places a weak spot in a location vulnerable to impact by road debris and offroad obstacles. I will probably not install the valve on my truck, and I plan to remove the valve from the Jeep next time I change the oil. I can see how it might be useful on a low clearance car, or a vehicle with skid pans that obstructed access to the drain plug. For my applications I just don't like the system enough to keep it.

Has anyone else had any experience with this type of oil change valve?

dogmush

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2020, 11:22:36 AM »
Not exactly that type.

I had a "push in and turn" type valve on my old F150, because the oil pan threads were stripping and I didn't want to get a new pan. I figured I had a couple more good torqueings in it, so I swapped to a valve before they failed completely. Worked fine til I sold the truck.

This one, as I recall:
https://www.lmctruck.com/1980-96-ford/ez-oil-drain-valve

I wouldn't spend another $15 on it unless I had damaged threads again.  Like you found out, it's not that hard to get it in a bucket.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2020, 11:23:20 AM »
I change the oil in my Jeep with it on the ground, no ramps.  I have a common oil drain pan that I use.  I put a piece of old cardboard under it to stop any oil drips from hitting the driveway, but it's rarely needed.  I put the used oil into the new oil containers once they are empty and I am done with the change process.  Pretty rare anything spills.

I think you way-overengineered this process.
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mgdavis

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2020, 11:31:09 AM »
I think you way-overengineered this process.

:shrug:
I typed quite a bit, true. The tl;dr version would be "Wanted to do tidy oil changes, saw something shiny and tried it, had some issues and didn't like it that much." Going through the thought process and steps taken flashes out the story a bit. APS isn't exactly overflowing with fresh content right now, so I went out of my way to contribute some. You're welcome.   :-*

cordex

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2020, 11:36:22 AM »
I appreciate your review, mgdavis.  Thanks.

Larry Ashcraft

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2020, 11:45:14 AM »
I don't know anything about those valves, so this is off topic, but...  When I change the trans hydraulic oil in my tractor, I use a couple of old 20 quart coolers to empty the old oil into.     They slide out easily with the handles on the ends.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020, 12:21:35 PM »

Has anyone else had any experience with this type of oil change valve?


Nope. I've seen the ads, but I've been doing my own oil changes for 60 years and I've never felt the need for a thingie that just begs road hazards to break it off. They make oil drain pans that will fit under just about any vehicle and catch the drain oil very neatly. Then I just use a funnel to pour the waste oil into the container from which I just filled the engine.

https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-11838-FloTool-15-Quart-Drain/dp/B000AMGYNA/ref=sr_1_26?crid=2YS97VT3KRKRB&dchild=1&keywords=oil+drain+pans+for+changing+oil&qid=1588436413&sprefix=oil+drain+pan%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-26
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MillCreek

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2020, 12:24:58 PM »
I bought one of the Fujimoto valves years back for my Suzuki DL650.  I discovered that a protective fin cast into the engine case adjacent to the drain plug prevented installation of the valve.  That was no where mentioned in the research I did before purchase. I posted my experience on several motorcycle forums to prevent others from making the same mistake.  I still on occasion get messages from people thanking me for this.

I like it when people post their real-life experiences about items.  Especially when I am buying something new or novel, I like to Google it looking for exactly this type of information.  I have been warned away, or encouraged to buy, many times based on such research.
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mgdavis

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2020, 12:49:26 PM »
Nope. I've seen the ads, but I've been doing my own oil changes for 60 years and I've never felt the need for a thingie that just begs road hazards to break it off. They make oil drain pans that will fit under just about any vehicle and catch the drain oil very neatly. Then I just use a funnel to pour the waste oil into the container from which I just filled the engine.

https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-11838-FloTool-15-Quart-Drain/dp/B000AMGYNA/ref=sr_1_26?crid=2YS97VT3KRKRB&dchild=1&keywords=oil+drain+pans+for+changing+oil&qid=1588436413&sprefix=oil+drain+pan%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-26

Funny, I have that identical pan. I have been using it for years. I have found that it works well on my bikes, but oil tends to splash about with taller vehicles. It also drips from the spout and the oily top attracts dirt when in storage.
I'm admittedly a little obsessive about cleanliness when I'm working, a trait that comes from my aerospace background.

*Edited to correct egregious use of "bit".
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 01:25:55 PM by mgdavis »

lupinus

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2020, 01:54:48 PM »
Yeah I have looked into but decided to never bother with them. Just not worth the hassle and expense.

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Kingcreek

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2020, 03:24:45 PM »
I concur with hawk, I’ve always worried about something hitting the petcock and draining the oil out when I needed it in.
I have the same or similar drain pain and use it for everything. I have a 30 gal steel barrel in the barn for waste oil hydro fluid, trans or brake fluid etc. even the occasional oil from my fish fryer: it all goes in the barrel. When it gets close to full I call a guy with a repair shop that uses a waste oil heater. He comes and picks it up and leaves me another empty barrel to take its place. I load it on his truck with my tractor loader. We are both happy with the arrangement.
Jeep Wrangler is so easy to change oil on I don’t know why anybody would pay a grease monkey to do it. In fact with the plastic oil cooler and filter element housing I don’t even trust anybody else not to over tighten and crack it resulting in a common and expensive repair.
Historically, I think I’ve done all oil changes unless under warranty and also many of them. I think I currently have about 12 power units with oil and filters which is less than I have had at different times in the past.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

K Frame

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2020, 08:21:53 PM »
I had a Fumoto valve on my first Outback. Loved it.

When I got rid of it back in 2011, I never got around to replacing it.

With the new Forester I got the other month I also got 2 years worth of service, so I don't have to worry about that for awhile.
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Jim147

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2020, 12:09:52 AM »
I have them on my two lawn tractors. Engineers decided on a V twin to put the drain plug behind the starter.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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tokugawa

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2020, 12:37:35 AM »
The clearance issue would bug me.  The drain plug on my ZRX is (was) about 3/8" -1/2" proud of the pan.
Sure as *expletive deleted*it I busted out the pan on a curb- one of those places the street was quite low, and they ramped it up to the sidewalk with asphalt, leaving a little 1" concrete ledge. Rode up on the sidewalk, BANG. It caught the last 1/16" of the plug head.  Now I use a low profile plug.

230RN

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2020, 05:38:45 AM »
Holy mackerel.

Quote
Series and Torque Range
101 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
102 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
103 and 133 Series: 177 in. lbs. or 15 ft. lbs.
104 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
105 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
106 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
107 and 137 Series: 177 in. lbs. or 15 ft. lbs.
108 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
109 and 139 Series: 177 in. lbs. or 15 ft. lbs.
F110N: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
111 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
F124N: 142 - 159 in. lbs. or 12 - 13 ft. lbs.
158 Series: 221 in. lbs. or 18 ft. lbs.
FG-2 Series: 354 in. lbs. or 30 ft. lbs.
FG-3 Series: 354 in. lbs. or 30 ft. lbs.
FG-5 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
FG-6 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
FG-7 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
FG-7B Series: 354 in. lbs. or 30 ft. lbs.
FG-8 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-200 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-201 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-202 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-203 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-204 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-205 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-206 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-207 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-208 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-209 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
T-211 Series: 531 in. lbs. or 44 ft. lbs.
F302L: 283 in. lbs. or 24 ft. lbs.
F303L: 283 in. lbs. or 24 ft. lbs.
F309L: 354 in. lbs. or 30 ft. lbs

Didn't they provide that list with the packaging instead of having it on-line?

Seems to me if it were  that variable and critical, they'd have told you up front, no?

Oil changes are sometimes weird.  On my Datsun 310, there were two "plugs" in the oil pan. One is the drain plug, the other is a screw which holds the transmission guts together down there according to the dealer. I had chosen the wrong one and it cost me many 1995 dollars to have the Datsun dealer put it all back together.

On my 240Z, the oil plug was really stuck and my first oil change I ended up hand-pumping the oil out through the fill pipe.  Next time around I brought it in to an Oil Simian shop figuring if they screwed it up down there, they'd have to fix it.  Evil little me, but apparently they got it all done right, and thereafter I could do my own oil changes.

So thank  you, Oil Simians.

Terry, 230RN


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Boomhauer

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2020, 07:06:18 AM »
If you don’t have the “feel” for tightening delicate stuff like that and rely on instructions you will *expletive deleted*ck it up every time. Use the Force, Luke.
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mgdavis

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2020, 10:23:56 AM »
The included instructions just said to go hand-tight plus 1/4 turn. The body of the valve doesn't have a hex head, so I would have had to go buy a crowsfoot in order to use a torque wrench. I doubt they expect anyone to refer to those torque tables.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2020, 10:27:26 AM »
The included instructions just said to go hand-tight plus 1/4 turn. The body of the valve doesn't have a hex head, so I would have had to go buy a crowsfoot in order to use a torque wrench. I doubt they expect anyone to refer to those torque tables.

And, of course, if you use a crow's foot it has an offset, so you can't read the torque directly off the wrench, you have to adjust for the offset.
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Ben

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2020, 10:32:31 AM »
I should consider these valves for both my ATV and UTV. Both plug locations were designed by devil engineers. One is easy to get off, but without jacking the ATV way up to where I could maybe see where it's going, it's super hard to get through a little access port to line it up again, and I'm always scared of stripping threads.

I'm sure some of you deal with the new style plug on the F150s (I'm sure it's on many other vehicles too). It's a 1/2 turn plastic plug that you can about remove and replace with just your fingers.  I was initially both scared of snapping the wings off it and also that it never "feels" like it's properly set once you reinstall it, and was just waiting for it to pop off and empty my oil pan on the freeway.  :lol:

Also it's ginormous and empties the oil in like five seconds. If I hadn't read up on it first, I wouldn't have been prepared with a proper container and placement and would have had the mess everyone warned about all over the concrete, because the oil just shoots out of the pan.


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zahc

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2020, 10:37:10 AM »
I always wanted to use the fumoto valves, but had a tingling instinctive feeling that it would somehow end up being more hassle than it would save. So yeah. I want to want to use them.

Also, I have superstition about certain vehicle improvements. A fumoto valve is something that will only pay off if you keep the vehicle for many years. I would be destined to crash the vehicle right after installing one.
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mgdavis

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2020, 11:14:08 AM »
And, of course, if you use a crow's foot it has an offset, so you can't read the torque directly off the wrench, you have to adjust for the offset.

You don't have to use a correction factor if you keep the crowsfoot at 90 degrees from the axis of the wrench handle. If you were to have it in line with the wrench you would have to start worrying about correcting, as this changes the effective length of the wrench.

tokugawa

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2020, 07:53:42 PM »

I'm sure some of you deal with the new style plug on the F150s (I'm sure it's on many other vehicles too). It's a 1/2 turn plastic plug that you can about remove and replace with just your fingers.  I was initially both scared of snapping the wings off it and also that it never "feels" like it's properly set once you reinstall it, and was just waiting for it to pop off and empty my oil pan on the freeway.  :lol:






 That is an oil drain plug?  Yikes. Bad x 10.

 Two things I want to stay in place till I absolutely, positively want them out- a oil drain plug and magazine.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2020, 09:31:43 PM »

 That is an oil drain plug?  Yikes. Bad x 10.

 Two things I want to stay in place till I absolutely, positively want them out- a oil drain plug and magazine.

Under the right circumstances a condom should also be on that list.
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Ben

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2020, 10:03:55 PM »

 That is an oil drain plug?  Yikes. Bad x 10.

 Two things I want to stay in place till I absolutely, positively want them out- a oil drain plug and magazine.

I'm actually comfortable with it staying in at this point. It's not intuitive that it would be secure, but it is. I still get scared that I'm going to break it when I remove it though, to the point that I keep a spare in my rollaway.
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tokugawa

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Re: Oil Change Valves
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2020, 01:37:24 AM »
I'm actually comfortable with it staying in at this point. It's not intuitive that it would be secure, but it is. I still get scared that I'm going to break it when I remove it though, to the point that I keep a spare in my rollaway.

 I am an old curmudgeon, so I am going out on a limb- I suspect this replacement for a simple bolt and crush washer ,that has worked fine since bolts and oil pans were invented, has to do with oil change facilities and the people working there who cannot remember to tighten them.

 I am going to hazard a guess- this plug cannot be inserted and stay in place without being locked in position?