Author Topic: Titanic tourist sub goes missing  (Read 15900 times)

K Frame

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #325 on: June 27, 2023, 08:07:11 AM »
Mmmmmmm....

No.

In a wide sense it seems to be accurate enough.
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230RN

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #326 on: June 27, 2023, 08:59:04 AM »
Mmmmmmm....

No.

In a wide sense it seems to be accurate enough.

Agreed.  With the enormous pressure differential (remember, from a relative point of view, the sub contained an absolute vacuum), the sheer violence of that implosion could have, and probably did have, the effects noted.  Note the same thing happened with the USS Thresher implosion incident at a lesser depth and its hard metal fragments were scattered over a wide area.  Remember my picture tube implosion  video, and the pressure differential there was only one atmosphere, 14.7 psi.

When you look at it from a ballistic or explosion viewpoint, every square inch of surface of the sub was propelled inward under, to repeat myself, an enormous force.

To review for the rest of the class, here's how pressure versus area works. Consider the 230 grain .45 ACP bullet, which has a rear surface area of .16 square inches by pi x radius2.  Assuming a nominal 25,000 psi of powder pressure, it is  propelled out the barrel under nominally ~4000 pounds of force (.16 X 25000) from the burning powder, resulting in a velocity of nominally 850 feet per second.   That's how pressure versus area works.

Not that you personally don't understand that, but I think the extraordinary far-fetched magnitude of those submarine events can escape attention.

It's like when it is said that there is no tensile strength involved when a meteoroid hits the moon. 

"Huh, say whut?"

The sheer enormity of the collision at those velocities essentially leaves tensile strength out of the picture.  It doesn't matter whether the meteoroid is a hard diamond or squishy silly putty. Both will make a brilliant flash from the sudden conversion of kinetic energy to heat energy and make lookalike craters.

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 09:42:21 AM by 230RN »
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dogmush

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #327 on: June 27, 2023, 10:51:50 AM »
Mmmmmmm....

No.

In a wide sense it seems to be accurate enough.


Mmmmmmm.....

Yes.

It says you'll get decompression sickness if you go lower than 130ft.  that's not what does iit, and you can get it easily at SCUBA Depths.

It says "Sunlight cuts out at 656 ft or 21psi"  200M is the zone at which there's enough sunlight to support plant life, not where sunlight cuts out.  There can be dicernable blue light much deeper.  And 200m is 21 atm not psi.

Comparing bite pressure to all around atmospheric pressure is retarded.  It isn't even a good context clue, because there's not a ton of people out there going "I remember the pressure when that Great White shark bit me, so that's how much they had!"

They talked about the Mythbusters episode with the meat guy, and called it an implosion, which it was not, and then said the meat went into the helmet when his suit depressurized, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

The only descriptive part they got right was that it was quick.


K Frame

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #328 on: June 27, 2023, 11:21:02 AM »
The mmmmm no was no, you can't have your 5 minutes back.
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #329 on: June 27, 2023, 11:24:08 AM »
Price per minute back is $1 million per minute.
I accept cash or gold only.
No guarantees or refunds.
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dogmush

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #330 on: June 27, 2023, 12:08:59 PM »
The mmmmm no was no, you can't have your 5 minutes back.

Ima need to talk to your manager.   =D

K Frame

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #331 on: June 27, 2023, 12:20:37 PM »


He says no.
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #332 on: June 27, 2023, 12:27:48 PM »
From time travel back to the depths

There was some question on the method used to drop the emergency weights on the Titan
Says the weights and even the skid could be dropped by use of a hydraulic lever

Interview is before they found the debris field.

Quote
A former passenger on one of Titan's maiden voyages says he ultimately "decided to back off" from the Titanic dive project as he "couldn't get comfortable with the design".

Speaking to Sky News, US explorer Josh Gates described how there were system errors during his journey on the submersible in a "shakedown dive" in 2021.

Missing Sub: Former Titan passenger 'couldn't get comfortable with design'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7gy3Sk1c6g

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #333 on: June 27, 2023, 12:53:27 PM »


He says no.

His girl friend agrees.

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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #334 on: June 27, 2023, 12:58:33 PM »
His girl friend agrees.



Sure that's a girl and not a Bud Light drinker?
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #335 on: June 27, 2023, 01:12:50 PM »
Just realized something else about that sub that gives me pause and dropping the skid made me think of it.
The mothership didn't have a crane for lifting the sub back up on board and instead the sub relied on a submersible barge(?) to lift it above the surface that the sub had to maneuver over first. What happens if they lost power or otherwise lost control? There's no top hatch instead someone from the outside had to unbolt the front cover. Are they screwed even if they made it to the surface?





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Northwoods

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #336 on: June 27, 2023, 01:23:29 PM »
Just realized something else about that sub that gives me pause and dropping the skid made me think of it.
The mothership didn't have a crane for lifting the sub back up on board and instead the sub relied on a submersible barge(?) to lift it above the surface that the sub had to maneuver over first. What happens if they lost power or otherwise lost control? There's no top hatch instead someone from the outside had to unbolt the front cover. Are they screwed even if they made it to the surface?


Had the not imploded, if they surfaced and the “barge” isn’t close by and nobody is available to unbolt the hatch, yes.

They should have had explosive bolts that could be fired from the inside, even in the absence of primary ship power.  That wouldn’t have helped them in this case of course.
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dogmush

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #337 on: June 27, 2023, 01:28:39 PM »
Just realized something else about that sub that gives me pause and dropping the skid made me think of it.
The mothership didn't have a crane for lifting the sub back up on board and instead the sub relied on a submersible barge(?) to lift it above the surface that the sub had to maneuver over first. What happens if they lost power or otherwise lost control? There's no top hatch instead someone from the outside had to unbolt the front cover. Are they screwed even if they made it to the surface?


M/V Polar Prince has a decent looking cargo davit on her foredeck (see pictures on marinetraffic.com)  There's a couple of pics of her with 20ft connexs on the foredeck, which if full exceed the weight of Titan.  Even if her davit couldn't lift Titan clear of the water and put it on deck, every pic of seen of Titan has lifting slings attached and faked out on top, so they could tension the lifting gear and hold her at the surface while they recovered the crew in an emergency (if they got to the surface).  Or they could hold the sub in lace with the davit and maneuver over the barge to place the sub where it needed to be if they had time and the thrusters were dead.

Still, there's something to be said for a wedge shaped hatch that could be opened from inside if needed.

I'm not sure explosively blowing the front of the sub off is significantly more survivable.  That's a pretty big column of water hitting everyone in the face.

Which is one of the very real issues with this design:  In an effort not to compromise the Carbon cylinder with more holes they designed a hatch that could not be safely opened while the sub was in the water, regardless of how exactly it was held closed.

HankB

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #338 on: June 27, 2023, 01:30:06 PM »
From time travel back to the depths

There was some question on the method used to drop the emergency weights on the Titan
Says the weights and even the skid could be dropped by use of a hydraulic lever

Interview is before they found the debris field.

Missing Sub: Former Titan passenger 'couldn't get comfortable with design'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7gy3Sk1c6g
I've watched Josh Gates' show ("Expedition: Unknown") numerous times, and I'm glad - for his sake - he backed off from making this sub part of his show because of safety concerns.

He's a good actor too, since he can show enthusiasm on camera for coming across insignificant things when he never seems to find the MAIN archaeological item he's looking for.
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #339 on: June 27, 2023, 01:30:25 PM »
Had the not imploded, if they surfaced and the “barge” isn’t close by and nobody is available to unbolt the hatch, yes.

They should have had explosive bolts that could be fired from the inside, even in the absence of primary ship power.  That wouldn’t have helped them in this case of course.

If it's still in the water it appears to me they can't start unbolting the hatch or blow it without the sub filling with water. The entire front is the hatch and it will still be at least halfway in the water without the barge.

Trying to find a better photo



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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #340 on: June 27, 2023, 01:37:05 PM »


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dogmush

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #341 on: June 27, 2023, 01:54:18 PM »
That blue nylon thing you see just aft of the hatch opening is a lifting sling.  They are always on that sub in pictures I've seen of it in the water.

Clearly someone thought they'd be able to lift it out of the water if needed or they wouldn't rig a slng each time it goes in the water.

WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #342 on: June 27, 2023, 03:30:25 PM »
Still seems awfully Jerry-rigged and not well thought out to me.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 04:05:07 PM by WLJ »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #343 on: June 27, 2023, 03:49:16 PM »
That article is riddled with inaccurate information.  I'd like the 5 min of my life back please.

And poorly-written, as well. But that goes hand-in-hand with the inaccuracies.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #344 on: June 27, 2023, 04:00:01 PM »
From time travel back to the depths

There was some question on the method used to drop the emergency weights on the Titan
Says the weights and even the skid could be dropped by use of a hydraulic lever

Interview is before they found the debris field.

Missing Sub: Former Titan passenger 'couldn't get comfortable with design'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7gy3Sk1c6g

So here we have a ten-minute (almost) video talking about the Titian, but all the footage shows the earlier, smaller Cyclops submersible.
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #345 on: June 27, 2023, 04:02:13 PM »
So here we have a ten-minute (almost) video talking about the Titian, but all the footage shows the earlier, smaller Cyclops submersible.

Noticed that, media outlet's fault playing stock footage, and I filtered it out and just listened to what he had to say since he seemed to be someone who should know what's he's talking about.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 04:23:01 PM by WLJ »
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Northwoods

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #346 on: June 27, 2023, 04:07:09 PM »
If it's still in the water it appears to me they can't start unbolting the hatch or blow it without the sub filling with water. The entire front is the hatch and it will still be at least halfway in the water without the barge.

Trying to find a better photo





Bad design.  But, with an auto deployed life raft equipped with an epirb or equivalent, if everyone was ready to swim out immediately, and if it would sink with the opening pointing up, it could work.  A top side escape hatch would be better.
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WLJ

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #347 on: June 27, 2023, 04:11:14 PM »
Bad design.  But, with an auto deployed life raft equipped with an epirb or equivalent, if everyone was ready to swim out immediately, and if it would sink with the opening pointing up, it could work.  A top side escape hatch would be better.

Your assuming they can open it in a snap, they can't. According to everything I've seen they have to remove 17 bolts to open it. By the time a few were removed the sub will be more than likely be filling with water and on it's way to join the Titanic
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MechAg94

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #348 on: June 27, 2023, 04:11:49 PM »


I guess it did complete at a few missions prior.
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Northwoods

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Re: Titanic tourist sub goes missing
« Reply #349 on: June 27, 2023, 04:22:36 PM »
Your assuming they can open it in a snap, they can't. According to everything I've seen they have to remove 17 bolts to open it. By the time a few were removed the sub will be more than likely be filling with water and on it's way to join the Titanic

That was in reference to having explosive bolts.
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