Titanic tourist sub goes missing

[HankB]

. . .
OceanGate Expeditions is STILL advertising $250,000 trips to the Titanic wreckage - 11 days after five were killed in implosion on doomed Titan
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12247875/OceanGate-Expeditions-advertising-250-000-trips-Titanic-wreckage.html

Did the company have more than 1 sub?

With the CEO gone, is there anyone left to sign paychecks for whoever else worked there?

How many have already left to seek other employment?

[Hawkmoon]

Did the company have more than 1 sub?

With the CEO gone, is there anyone left to sign paychecks for whoever else worked there?

How many have already left to seek other employment?

They still have the Cyclops, an older submersible with a larger front viewport. But the Cyclops isn't rated for nearly the depth of the Titanic, and after the fate of the Titan submersible I would have serious doubts about using the Cyclops in anything other than the depth of an average swimming pool.

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/oceangate-gets-cyclops-1-submersible-set-scientific-expedition-salish-sea/

[MechAg94]

He keeps talking as if it were a pressure vessel, and that seems to have colored his thinking.  It was not a pressure vessel, it was a vacuum vessel compared to the outside pressures.

At the risk of encountering boos and hisses and rotten tomato throwing, the device sucked. 

I've been pointing this out here and there, but I know first-hand what happens when a big TV picture tube implodes.  Here it is in slo mo

https://youtu.be/iqLNskTt1Zs (1:32)

I note there are several vids out thee now demonstrating this kind of event.

I think you are right about that bold part.  But boo an hiss to you anyway.   

I get the impression the design was not 100% there and had at least one too many weak points which led to failure.  Hopefully, we can find enough in the debris to learn something from the failure.

[WLJ]

They still have the Cyclops, an older submersible with a larger front viewport. But the Cyclops isn't rated for nearly the depth of the Titanic, and after the fate of the Titan submersible I would have serious doubts about using the Cyclops in anything other than the depth of an average swimming pool.

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/oceangate-gets-cyclops-1-submersible-set-scientific-expedition-salish-sea/

Neither was the Titan it turned out.

[230RN]

NEW COMFORT ZONE PARAMETERS FOR TERRY

Well, I now have another Terry's Comfort Zone Parameter to go along with these previously established values:

76°F  +/- 3°F

6MPH  +/- 3MPH breeze

40%RH +/- 30%RH

32fs/s Gee (parameters not tested, but judging from motion sickness on a kid's swing set when I was a kid, ain't much)

5'5" +/- 0'5" girls height, but flexible depending on horizontal dimensions

Now, a new parameter based on this "incident" and the additional remarks can be added:

5'1" water depth + 0'0" / -5"1" in still water

( 5'1" being the height of my chin )

Duly noted and recorded,

Terry, 230RN

[MillCreek]

I actually drove by the Oceangate shop space down on the Everett waterfront. The Oceangate sign is now gone and there is a handwritten sign on the roll up door 'closed until further notice'.

[AZRedhawk44]

I actually drove by the Oceangate shop space down on the Everett waterfront. The Oceangate sign is now gone and there is a handwritten sign on the roll up door 'closed until further notice'.

Come to think of it, I'm rather baffled why a company specializing in Atlantic Ocean expeditions would headquarter on a Pacific Coast harbor.

I understand that there's a lot of carbon fiber expertise in the Puget Sound area.  Aside from Boeing, SpaceX was experimenting with CF hulls for their Starship back in 2016 or so and they did the work up in the Puget Sound.  That being said, an Atlantic port seems more suitable for a Titanic tourism company.

[Boomhauer]

I understand this is a fictional reference, but do you guys remember the underwater laboratory from the show Lost?

It was about 100 ft under water and had a moon pool in it.

By having a moon pool, does that mean that the air inside is pressurized to more than 1 atmosphere?

Are there sneaky submarines that have flood-able rooms with moon pools, or air locks to the ocean, where a diver would have to transition from one atmosphere to 2 or 3 (ore more!) atmospheres of pressure in air (a pre-compression chamber?), then get into water for a task and return to the submarine and go through decompression?

You really ought to read Blind Man’s Bluff.

The Navy tapped a cable at 400 feet using submarines with air locks/decompression chambers.

[AZRedhawk44]

Let's say a sub is rated for 1000 feet dive depth, or about 30 atmospheres of pressure differential.

If you pressurized the air inside the sub somehow to 30 bar, could you then take the sub to double its dive depth?

Obviously you couldn't rise above -1000ft without risking a burst of the hull or damage to the crew without depressurizing.

Are there any subs running that take advantage of this, and this is why some subs stay under water for months at a time?

[dogmush]

Let's say a sub is rated for 1000 feet dive depth, or about 30 atmospheres of pressure differential.

If you pressurized the air inside the sub somehow to 30 bar, could you then take the sub to double its dive depth?

Obviously you couldn't rise above -1000ft without risking a burst of the hull or damage to the crew without depressurizing.

Are there any subs running that take advantage of this, and this is why some subs stay under water for months at a time?

Yes, theoretically, although it's probably not exactly linear, and there may be things like seawater piping and coolant pumps we aren't taking into consideration, but the hull should work.

No there are not any subs I'm aware of doing that.  Among other things, at 30 atm the gas mixture becomes really important.  You have to replace most of the nitrogen with helium, but leave just enough nitrogen in the mix that the nitrogen narcosis offsets the High Pressure Nervous Syndrome.  You also need to very carefully monitor the partial pressure of the oxygen to keep from hitting oxygen toxicity.

The subs that stay down for months at a time are nuke boats using their unlimited electricity to recycle and scrub the air at 1 atm.

[HankB]

Let's say a sub is rated for 1000 feet dive depth, or about 30 atmospheres of pressure differential.

If you pressurized the air inside the sub somehow to 30 bar, could you then take the sub to double its dive depth?

Obviously you couldn't rise above -1000ft without risking a burst of the hull or damage to the crew without depressurizing.

Are there any subs running that take advantage of this, and this is why some subs stay under water for months at a time?

I suppose it's possible in theory, but I suspect very difficult in practice. Different air mixtures, endurance of people at high pressures, compression, decompression, partial pressure of oxygen, effect on the sub's own systems . . . it wouldn't be a trivial task. I know there are issues with oxy/helium, so oxy/hydrogen is used as a deep diving mixture - think of a sub filled with THAT!

And think about what's carried on the sub - everything from pop cans to lithium batteries to ink pens - not to mention military ordnance. What happens when those are subjected to 30 atmospheres of pressure?

[WLJ]

In the larger scheme of things would you be gaining that much? You could shave a bit off the hull but there is really little different between 0 and 1K compared to 1k and 12.5k pressure wise plus in addition to the equipment issues above you would be making surfacing that much more problematic, time consuming, and possibly fatal in an emergency

[RoadKingLarry]

why some subs stay under water for months at a time?

My longest stint submerged was 89 days.

Subs have several means to replenish/recycle the air we would breathe.

Oxygen can be replenished in 4 ways.
Ventilate- Out with the old and in with the new, requires a trip to periscope depth and extending a snorkel mast. Some what noisy evolution and risks detection.
Oxygen banks- Oxygen stored at very high pressure that can be slowly released into the sub.
Oxygen generator- Extract O2 from seawater by electrolysis and discharge the hydrogen overboard
Chlorate Candles- Chemical generation of O2. My first boat did not have a Oxygen generator, we burned candles or used the O2 banks.

CO2 removal
CO2 scrubber- removes excess CO2 from atmosphere  https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA389253 and as mentioned in the link, lithium hydroxide which can be placed in a machine and the air pumped through it or in an emergency situation it can even be spread out on the deck to absorb CO2 passively.

CO and hydrogen- they are catalyzed out of the air and burned off with the residue discharged overboard

I've seen O2 levels allowed to get low enough that a Zippo lighter would barely burn and a cigarette (old school) would go out on it's own. Imagine a really bad hangover grade headache with out the hangover stomach issues.

We would routinely take a pressure in the boat just prior to diving as just a matter of course. When surfacing we would have to equalize pressure in the boat before opening hatches or the poor schlub opening it could actually get sort of popped out like a cork.
We did have to ability to pressurize a breached compartment against sea pressure but that was a last resort action.

[Angel Eyes]

[BobR]

"presumed human remains" in my mind strongly implies they got something but not really sure what probably akin to goo that probably got blasted along with parts of the CF hull into the hemisphere. Highly doubt they'll release photos.

The amount of force that hit those people most people can't wrap their brains around.

Could we get a couple of sponges to Pier 17 please. Oh, and a biohazard bag. Thanks


bob

[WLJ]

[WLJ]

[WLJ]

Couldn't help but notice
Heaven's Gate
OceanGate

Wonder if they all had their Nikes on?

I'm go away now and go back to slipping bourbon

[MechAg94]

[WLJ]

[WLJ]

[WLJ]

[WLJ]

^^^^

Bonus points if you read that in their voices

[K Frame]

'Chlorate Candles- Chemical generation of O2. My first boat did not have a Oxygen generator, we burned candles or used the O2 banks.'

Those things produce a lot of heat, don't they?

[cordex]

'Chlorate Candles- Chemical generation of O2. My first boat did not have a Oxygen generator, we burned candles or used the O2 banks.'

Those things produce a lot of heat, don't they?

https://youtu.be/g3Ud6mHdhlQ?t=619