Author Topic: Maybe we deserve what we get  (Read 15112 times)

Paddy

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Maybe we deserve what we get
« on: May 14, 2007, 05:27:59 PM »
We go to their country, rape and kill a 14 year old girl and her family:

BAGHDAD (AP) - An al-Qaida front group that claims it has captured American soldiers warned the United States on Monday to stop searching for them and suggested it attacked the U.S. convoy as revenge for the rape and murder of a local teenager last year.
The U.S. military also said for the first time it believes the three missing soldiers were abducted by al-Qaida-linked militants after an attack that included three roadside bombs.

"What you are doing in searching for your soldiers will lead to nothing but exhaustion and headaches. Your soldiers are in our hands. If you want their safety, do not look for them," the Islamic State of Iraq said on a militant Web site.

"You should remember what you have done to our sister Abeer in the same area," the statement said, referring to five American soldiers who were charged in the rape and killing of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and the killings of her parents and her younger sister last year.

Three soldiers have pleaded guilty in the case.


Meanwhile, 4,000 U.S. troops backed by aircraft, intelligence units and Iraqi forces were scouring the farming area around Mahmoudiya and the nearby town of Youssifiyah as the military promised to find the missing soldiers.

Lt. Col. Christopher Garver said the U.S. military could not verify Sunday's claim by the Islamic State of Iraq but "it would not surprise me if ... al-Qaida in Iraq is involved in this because there are similarities to what they've done before."

The spokesman pointed out that the terror network also had claimed responsibility for killing two U.S. soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found after they disappeared in the same area last year.

The Islamic State in Iraq offered no proof for its Internet claim that it was behind the attack in Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, that also killed four U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi translator. If the claim proves true, it would mark one of the most brazen attacks by the Islamic State of Iraq, a coalition of eight insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq.

Late last month, the group named a 10-member "Cabinet" complete with a "war minister," an apparent attempt to present the Sunni coalition as an alternative to the U.S.-backed *expletive deleted*it-led administration of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

On Sunday, U.S. troops surrounded Youssifiyah and told residents over loudspeakers to stay inside, then methodically searched houses, focusing on possible secret chambers under the floors where the soldiers might be hidden, residents said.

The soldiers marked each searched house with a white piece of cloth.

Soldiers also searched cars entering and leaving the town, writing "searched" on the side of each vehicle they had inspected. Several people were arrested, witnesses said.

Early Monday, U.S. and Iraqi forces exchanged fire with gunmen near Youssifiyah during the house-to-house search, killing two suspected insurgents and injuring four others, a top Iraqi army officer in the area said.

He said the fighting began at about 3:30 a.m. and lasted for about 30 minutes. The officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to security concerns, said the coalition detained more than 100 suspects in the region.

The U.S. military did not comment on the report.

Mahmoudiya residents complained that forces of the U.S.-led coalition had searched their homes, and AP Television News video showed an apartment that appeared to have been ransacked. One local also said three residents, including two guards at a mosque, had been detained by coalition forces, but that could not be immediately confirmed.

The family of Army Sgt. 1st Class James David Connell Jr., 40, of Lake City, Tenn., said he was among one of the four soldiers killed in the attack near Mahmoudiya.

Deadly violence also struck other areas Monday.

The worst attack occurred in the Diyala capital of Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, when gunmen in two cars opened fire on a checkpoint, killing three policemen and two civilians before fleeing, police said. Two policemen and four civilians were wounded, police said.

On Sunday, five civilians were killed execution-style in Baqouba by gunmen who apparently accused them of collaborating with the coalition.

The U.S. military has noted an increase in violence in the volatile region and sent in 3,000 additional forces.

A roadside bomb near the southern city of Basra killed one Danish soldier and wounded five Monday, according to Maj. Kim Gruenberger of the Danish Army Operational Command. An Iraqi translator also was wounded.

Seven Danish soldiers have been killed in Iraq since the war began. In February, the Danish government said it would withdraw its 460-member contingent from Basra by August and replace it with a smaller helicopter unit.

In other violence reported by police on Monday around Iraq, 11 people were killed and 22 were wounded. Police also found two bound bodies in the Tigris River.

Also Monday, U.S. soldiers stopped five lawmakers loyal to the anti- American *expletive deleted*it cleric Muqtada al-Sadr as they were walking inside Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, one of the legislators said. An Associated Press reporter witnessed the encounter.

The lawmaker said the soldiers drove up in an SUV marked "police" and stopped the legislators, who included two women, just outside the building where they attended a session.

The soldiers asked the men to hand over the passes giving them access to the Green Zone, home to Iraq's parliament as well as its government offices and the U.S. and British embassies. The lawmakers obliged, but an argument broke out.

One of the lawmakers later told the AP that the argument lasted about 30 minutes and ended with the soldiers giving back the passes.

Parliament is expected this week to debate a draft legislation sponsored by the 30 Sadrist lawmakers for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign forces in Iraq and a freeze on their existing levels.

The Sadrists say they have secured the support of 144 lawmakers in the 275-seat parliament, but the draft was not expected to win the support of so many if it ever comes to a vote.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P485AG0&show_article=1


Ron

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 05:46:48 PM »
Then again maybe we don't.  What did the Shia and Kurds do to deserve being the fill for mass graves? What did the folks who died on 9/11 do to deserve dying?

Don't dignify and give moral weight to the animals who are killing innocents on purpose in Baghdad.

Repeat after me, we are the good guys they are the bad guys. The lines get blurred on occasion but any rational person knows who are the good guys.

Ron

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 05:50:19 PM »
Quote
We go to their country, rape and kill a 14 year old girl and her family

Let me add "we" didn't do anything of the sort.

The men who are on trial and admitted to it did it and we don't condone it either!

roo_ster

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 06:10:13 PM »
Who is "we," mother****er?
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Paddy

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2007, 06:19:25 PM »
Quote
Who is "we," mother****er?
Well, "we" are the people (all of us, btw) in whose name and with whose money and with whose permission and authority "we" are in Iraq (for no good reason, btw).

Sindawe

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2007, 06:25:34 PM »
RRRRRRIGHT  /Bill Cosby

As if the hands of al-Qaida and their ilk are free from the stains of innocent blood.

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2007, 06:38:38 PM »
Words do no justice to such colossal idiocy.   shocked
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Paddy

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 06:44:29 PM »
Quote
As if the hands of al-Qaida and their ilk are free from the stains of innocent blood.
And that's somehow justification and makes cold blooded rape and murder right?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?
THAT is really warped thinking, my friend.  rolleyes


Sindawe

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 06:55:21 PM »
Now just WHERE did I claim that the crimes of al-Qaida were justification for rape and murder?

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

roo_ster

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2007, 08:17:00 PM »
Words do no justice to such colossal idiocy.   shocked
What fistful wrote.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
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Antibubba

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2007, 08:32:00 PM »
RileyMc,

   Do you think they would not have abducted those soldiers if that rape and murder hadn't occured?  Or might it be just a good excuse?

Aftter 9/11, a few Arab-looking people were assaulted in the US (including a Sikh, no friends of the Muslims).  But because America is run by the rule of law, those who did the assaulting were found and prosecuted.  The soldiers who raped that girl and killed her family will never know freedom again.  Do you think the American military will start rounding up and imprisoning Iraqis if Al Quaida doesn't release those men?

We aren't perfect, but it sure seems we are better people than they.
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doczinn

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2007, 09:04:58 PM »
"We" sent them over there to do a job. "We" didn't tell them it was OK to rape or murder, and "we" will prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law, as they knew "we" would. Tell me again how the three captured soldiers  or "we" bear blame for the rape and murder?
D. R. ZINN

De Selby

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 09:16:51 PM »
This is a fundamentally flawed way of looking at people.

People are individuals.  You do not deserve to even be questioned on this atrocity just because you're American and the rapists were American.

Likewise, Arabs do not deserve to be killed because Osama Bin Laden is an Arab.  It has nothing to do with whether or not "we are the good guys" or "they are the bad guys."  Collective guilt does not inhere in societies for the crimes of individuals.

The fundamental problem is that there is an Army in Iraq that the Iraqis don't want there.  Add on top of it that conduct that puts the value of one American life above many Iraqi lives (ie, security measures, checkpoint shootings, using air-delivered munitions to kill insurgents)...and you have a recipe for disaster.  The militants do not care if there are war crimes committed or not. 

The entire project is flawed, and there will be no end to this insanity as long as there are combat troops in that country.
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Phyphor

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2007, 10:39:26 PM »
Look.

Any American "soldier" that commits rape/murder on anyone should hang.

This does not excuse Al fuckheadda's kidnapping/probable murder of anyone.

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 12:53:30 AM »
yeah, and if that girl had survived the rape she would have been honor killed.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 03:17:21 AM »
Quote
Likewise, Arabs do not deserve to be killed because Osama Bin Laden is an Arab.  It has nothing to do with whether or not "we are the good guys" or "they are the bad guys."  Collective guilt does not inhere in societies for the crimes of individuals.

I think "bad guys" referred to the kidnappers, al-Qaeda, et al.
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Ron

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 04:09:58 AM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Likewise, Arabs do not deserve to be killed because Osama Bin Laden is an Arab.  It has nothing to do with whether or not "we are the good guys" or "they are the bad guys."  Collective guilt does not inhere in societies for the crimes of individuals.

I think "bad guys" referred to the kidnappers, al-Qaeda, et al.
Exactly, I think it is obvious who are the good guys.

Quote
Likewise, Arabs do not deserve to be killed because Osama Bin Laden is an Arab.  It has nothing to do with whether or not "we are the good guys" or "they are the bad guys."  Collective guilt does not inhere in societies for the crimes of individuals.
I don't know if you are speaking generically or referring to me again. The Iraqi parliament can pass a binding resolution telling us to leave whenever they want. The closest they have come is copying the lame tactics of the American Democrat party and passing a non-binding resolution. They want the PR of voting for something popular (Yankee go home) but not the responsibility of the repercussions from that vote (ensuing chaos).

The average Iraqi wants us gone just not right away.

The Rabbi

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 04:37:13 AM »
You guys don't get it.
We are all guilty of the rape of that girl.  If we werent there actually doing it, we condoned it.  If we didnt condone it, we created the conditions that made it happen.  We voted for George Bush and Dick Cheney and sent the army and Haliburton into Iraq on a deeply flawed mission based on lies and deceit.  Iraqis were much better off under Saddam.  You never saw sectarian violence under Saddam or anti-Saddam rallies.
Yes, we are guilty.  We have tried to impose our Western-centric beliefs and views on a proud independent people who did us no harm.  We need to bring our troops home now and pay reparations to Iraq for all the damage we've done.  Then and only then will we achieve some peace and understanding with the beloved freedom fighters.  Terrorists?  By that token Washington and Jefferson were the bin Laden and al Zawahiri of their times.  There is no difference.


(The forgoing was satire, just in case anyone missed it.  Unfortunately the OP was not).
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 04:54:31 AM »
Since Rabbi has exposed us for the creeps we are, I may as well admit that I have also been getting a share of the shipping containers full of Iraqi girls.  We rape them there, we rape them here.  Yup, it's a war for illicit sex, and we're all guilty. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2007, 04:56:42 AM »
No, I wholeheartedly disagree with the OP.

If "an eye for an eye" was a valid model of justice, as that sort seems to think, most of the Middle East would be a glass parking lot.

The fact that THEY believe it's a valid model of justice, and we do not, makes us better than them.

It's called "being civilized". We punished the OFFENDERS. They punish the innocent in revenge.


Ezekiel

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2007, 05:06:52 AM »
The entire project is flawed, and there will be no end to this insanity as long as there are combat troops in that country.

Concur.  (Self-righteous Nationalistic and Imperialist fervor from the masses not withstanding.)

Any argument that implies "we" are the good guys and "they" are the bad guys is simplistic, shallow and rampant with conceit: completely illustrating the crux of our ongoing problem to begin with!
Zeke

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2007, 05:21:14 AM »
Yeah.  LEt's do away with Imperialistic and Nationalistic fervor today!  Kill the running dogs of capitalism!
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Ezekiel

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2007, 05:28:59 AM »
Yeah.  LEt's do away with Imperialistic and Nationalistic fervor today!  Kill the running dogs of capitalism!

Are you implying that we invaded Iraq due to capitalism?
Zeke

Perd Hapley

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2007, 05:44:15 AM »
Reading test:

Quote from: Ron
Repeat after me, we are the good guys they are the bad guys. The lines get blurred on occasion but any rational person knows who are the good guys.


Who is being identified as "the bad guys"?
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Paddy

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Re: Maybe we deserve what we get
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2007, 06:00:09 AM »
The usual kneejerk overreactions to any criticism of this 'war', accompanied by the usual Hannity style rah-rah-wave-the-flag-don't-ask-questions mindless rhetoric.  There is no compelling U.S. national security interest served by our continuing occupation of Iraq.  It is a country on the verge of all out civil war. Iraq is an artificial country, constructed by the British & French without regard to the ethnic and religious differences within its boundaries. To even have a chance of peace, the country must be broken up-returned-to its component parts.  Each group (Kurds, Shia, Sunni) needs its own sovereign boundary within which it is free to self-govern.  Saddam was able to pacify the country only through brutal force.

The Bush administration has completely bungled/mismanaged this 'war'.  Iraq is no closer to 'democratization' (that is the latest excuse, isn't it?) now than it was a year or two or three ago. Bush's Rodney King (can't we all just get along) attitude toward Iraq is, and will continue to be, a complete and utter failure.  I, for one, do not want to see us continue to squander American lives and untold billions $$ on what will eventually be another Vietnam.

I never said, nor do I believe, that any of us condone rape and murder.  We are supposed to be the good guys.  However, claiming the moral high ground requires constant self examination, not only of the consequences of our actions, but of our intentions as well.  Whatever the intentions of this 'war', they have been covered with a thin veneer of ever-changing excuses-from WMD's to 'regime change' to 'democratization' etc., et yada.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that much is clear now and has been for some time.  Who the hell are we to attempt to impose a western style democracy on a country that is essentially tribal and holds strong beliefs in Islamic law?

We are the only force on earth that can even come close to pacifying Iraq-and only by breaking it up into its component parts.  Each group needs its own land and borders after which any incursion by any group on any other group would be an act of war.  Either that, or continue down this road, squandering lives and money.  Ultimately, Iran will overrun Iraq and 'ethnically cleanse' it of Kurds and Sunnis.  That blood will be on our hands.