Author Topic: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?  (Read 2675 times)

Bogie

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Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« on: June 21, 2007, 02:49:48 PM »
I'm just wondering if the thing wants more ram... The OS that came with the new box is XP Media Center, and there's a buncha crapware that I'm going to be killing at my leisure.
 
And before someone posts that all I need to run IE and Word and stuff is 256 megs, this machine is going to be running a software RIP for large scale image processing. More RAM is generally seen as being a good thing with that...
 
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mtnbkr

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2007, 03:03:00 PM »
And before someone posts that all I need to run IE and Word and stuff is 256 megs, this machine is going to be running a software RIP for large scale image processing. More RAM is generally seen as being a good thing with that...
 

Clean the crap off the machine, turn off unused services, load your app, and see how much memory it is using, how much is left to the system, etc.  Add enough to cover your needs plus +25% for future growth.

Or, you can stuff it to the gills and hope you get the opportunity to use it all before the machine is obsolete, rendering your investment a waste.

Chris

Manedwolf

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2007, 03:25:20 PM »
My core duo macbook pro has 3, but I also do Final Cut video renders.

Basically, for intensive tasks, more memory generally means it gets done faster.

mtnbkr

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2007, 03:29:42 PM »
Quote
Basically, for intensive tasks, more memory generally means it gets done faster.
As long as the app uses it.  Once you pass that point, you're just burning money.

Chris

Cromlech

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2007, 03:32:38 PM »
2Gb should be splendid for that sort of thing.
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K Frame

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2007, 06:19:40 PM »
MORE! FASTER, PUSSYCAT! KILL! KILL!


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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2007, 06:29:31 PM »
Yeah, you'll be fine.

Bogie

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2007, 07:45:01 PM »
Mikey, I've seen stuff that would make folks cringe...
 
Former prez of a Kaypro user group, for starters... 64K? Bah - You'll never need it all...
 
And I saw Divine in a drag show once...
 
(former art major, hetero-type)
 
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K Frame

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2007, 09:22:35 PM »
I've seen the same kind of thing, Booger...

It just sort of strikes me as a bit... reflexive... and non thinking at times some of the recommendations I've seen.

For example, when I was looking at a laptop a few weeks ago.

I VERY plainly stated what it would be used for, but that didn't stop quite a few people from reflexively telling me that I needed as much RAM as I could pack into the system, and even that wouldn't be enough to run Microsoft Word and Internet Explorer.
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tyme

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2007, 11:30:13 AM »
Mike, if you really stick to a minimal set-up, you can get away with 2GB, or even 1GB, particularly if you don't run a VM.

However, it doesn't take many modern apps to eat up a gig or two.
linux or os/x ... with firefox + azureus + openoffice + IM + audacious + vlc + gimp + opera
windows in a VM, with... IE + office + acrobat + photoshop + all the systray garbage (drivers, antivirus, etc.)

I don't consider that sort of usage very exotic.  I tend to open apps and then not close them, and I like to have dozens of tabs open in firefox.  If a person doesn't know exactly how you use your computer -- not just a list of things you run, or what you run primarily, but rather what's actually going to be running on your computer most of the time -- then I don't think you can blame them for suggesting >2GB.

Also consider that any unused memory is used by the OS to cache filesystem data.  Even if your apps aren't using all your memory, you're still getting some benefit from the extra ram.

If you don't mind hitting swap occasionally, you can get away with less.  The openoffice document you've opened and then ignored will eventually get swapped out, which isn't a major problem.  However, when you click on that window, expect to wait at least a few seconds as the OS swaps out something else to make room for openoffice.  That's the kind of delay that I find aggravating, and it's the reason I recommend as much ram as possible.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2007, 11:36:23 AM »
RAM is cheap speed.  If more is better, too much is just right!

Brad
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K Frame

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2007, 11:57:16 AM »
"linux or os/x ... with firefox + azureus + openoffice + IM + audacious + vlc + gimp + opera
windows in a VM, with... IE + office + acrobat + photoshop + all the systray garbage (drivers, antivirus, etc.)"

"I don't consider that sort of usage very exotic."

As I have REPEATEDLY said (is ANYONE listening?) any laptop I would get would have TWO applications on it -- Microsoft Word and Internet Explorer.

I repeatedly explained that yet it was obviously drowned out by the chants of RAM! RAM! RAM! RAM! RAM! RAM! RAM!

Jesus H. Christ.

Let's look at how many of your "non exotic" applications I'd actually put on MY machine...

Linux - are you out of your frigging mind?

Firefox - maybe. I'm still not sold on it.

Azureus - what the hell is this?

Open office - Why would I need open office if I have Microsoft Word?

IM - Not a chance.

Audacious - see the entry for Azureus

VLC - huh?

Gimp - double huh?

Opera - triple huh?

Windows in a VM - What in the name of god would I want to run VM for? Does it somehow make Internet Explorer that much better?

Acrobat - Not on the laptop, that's what my desktop is for

Photoshop - I don't even have photoshop on my desktop!


Not everyone is a 22nd level Master Geek Systems Adminstrator.

I asked for comments on the configuration that Dell was presenting, alreadying knowing that it met my LIMITED requirements, and I think I got two useful comments in the entire damned thread.

Everyone else was doing everything they could to:

1.) Ignore the ACTUAL question that was asked

2.) Impress everyone else with the depth and breadth of their compugeek creds.

I can only thing that somehow the desperate need to flash on everyone else makes some individuals momentarily illiterate.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2007, 12:35:11 PM »
Oh, sorry Mike.  Were you saying something...?

 laugh

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Bogie

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2007, 12:55:24 PM »
Screw that. It's all wussie... even Tyme's examples.
 
Imagine this...
 
A photoshop document that's 44" high x 96" wide, at 720dpi, with 32 bit color depth.
 
That's where things start to get interesting.
 
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2007, 01:00:30 PM »

Quote
A photoshop document that's 44" high x 96" wide, at 720dpi, with 32 bit color depth.

Oh. Dear. Lord.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Cromlech

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2007, 01:28:59 PM »
Screw that. It's all wussie... even Tyme's examples.
 
Imagine this...
 
A photoshop document that's 44" high x 96" wide, at 720dpi, with 32 bit color depth. That's where things start to get interesting.
 

My system:

Win XP Pro
Core2Duo E6600 @2.4Ghz
4096Mb DDR2 RAM @ 800Mhz (4-4-4-12)
OS (Windows) on 74Gb Raptor drive
Programs on 74Gb Raptor drive
NVidia 8800GTX - GPU @ 576Mhz - VRAM @ 1800Mhz

But yeah, those kinds of figures for photoshop are damn scary.
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tyme

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2007, 04:34:18 PM »
Quote
As I have REPEATEDLY said (is ANYONE listening?) any laptop I would get would have TWO applications on it -- Microsoft Word and Internet Explorer.
So basically you aren't interested in any novel computer applications that have come along in the last 10 years, nor can you imagine ever wanting to try them?  Will you really be getting your money's worth out of a new laptop?  For what you want, you could get away with a $200 laptop on ebay (except for the fact that Vista, if you ever want it, won't run [well] on such old hardware).

Quote
Linux - are you out of your frigging mind?
If you're running windows as your primary OS, and you aren't a techie, and you don't have an IT department backing you up, IMO you're out of your mind.  For office apps and web browsing and email, linux (ubuntu in particular) is now quite capable.

Quote
(confused by app references)
gimp is a linux image editor, kindof like photoshop, but more functional for advanced users (scripting) and less professional.
azureus - torrents
audacious - like winamp
vlc - plays movies/video
opera - another browser, tends to be fast, but not as flexible (in plugins or configuration) as firefox.

Quote
Acrobat - Not on the laptop, that's what my desktop is for
If your laptop could handle all of the above, wouldn't you want to run everything on one computer (and copy files to the desktop as backup) rather than worry about which files are where?
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Gewehr98

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2007, 04:50:55 PM »
Have to agree with Mike on this one.

It appears a true measure of geekdom these days is how many gigs of memory you stuff into the case. That, and installing about 20 bazillion apps that you'll never use or need, impressive as they sound. 

I have no need for all the stuff Tyme rattled off, either.

I do run Adobe CS2 and Firefox, though.

Dunno, I ain't a sysadmin, nor do I have the secret sysadmin decoder ring and membership, I didn't buy the right kind of cereal box, I guess.  My geek degree went the other direction, Applied Physics, so I'm sure were I to be measured by anointed compugeeks I'd be found sorely lacking, particularly with a paltry 1 Gb RDRAM in each of my big black IBM boxes. (I keep my systems as lean and clean as I can, no bloatware or unused apps, visible or background)

I'm such a poseur.   grin

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mtnbkr

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2007, 05:21:51 PM »
Quote
I keep my systems as lean and clean as I can, no bloatware or unused apps, visible or background
You don't need gobs of ram if you keep you systems tight.  That was one of the benefits of Linux.

If you need 4gigs of ram, by all means get it.  If you need 1gig, but install 4, you're just a chump with a lighter wallet.

Chris

tyme

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2007, 05:36:12 PM »
Quote from: Mike Irwin
IM - Not a chance.

In case you've missed the memo, email is on the way out for casual communication.  IM is what all the cool people use now.  Now that I think about it, that memo was distributed via IM...  so sorry.

If you have a gmail account, you have IM... -username- @gmail.com (protocol is jabber).  If you have a yahoo email account, you have a yahoo IM account.  And if you have a MSN account, you have a MSN Messenger account.  Jabber and Yahoo allow offline messaging, which is pretty close to email.  AIM doesn't do offline messaging, AFAIK.

So you have one of those accounts, but are sort of confused as to how to start using IM?  Get Pidgin.  It works with all of them.

Email is still good for:
a) communicating with people who don't do IM, or at least not consistently
b) official communications (I don't expect corporate execs to IM each other proposals anytime soon)
c) writing long screeds (IM clients aren't geared toward word processing)
d) anonymous email (mixmaster and mixminion are damned good anonymizers, and are resistant even to NSA-level monitoring).  Since IM is semi-real-time, it is more vulnerable to traffic analysis... like Tor.

Still, I would argue that b) and c) are better served by writing documents in a word processor, then either sticking them on the web and IMing the URL to the intended recipients or sending the file itself via IM.  Email was never meant for word processing, and it pisses me off that so many people treat it as a medium to send html crap, PDFs, and word documents.  At least with IM or IMed URLs the document-transfer process is out-of-band, and the IM correspondence itself isn't cluttered with that crap.  Also, IM does away with the stacked-quoting nightmare that tends to occur whenever some non-trivial issue is being bounced around between multiple recipients.

And let's not forget the spam problem.  It's much easier to spot spam via IM because there are all sorts of protocol peculiarities.  First, all the protocols except jabber are centralized, which makes it easy to detect spammers and block them.  In addition, decent protocols (i.e. not AIM/oscar) require permission to send to a recipient, so a message to a bunch of users who have not approved the sender is easy to notice, and easy to block.  Even with jabber, which is decentralized, the same red flags go up if one jabber server is sending to a bunch of users on another jabber server who haven't set presence-notification for the sender(s).

In short, while I still do email, I think for most purposes, it's overused (and abused).
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Sindawe

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2007, 07:14:05 PM »
Quote
I'm such a poseur.

No, just a very small shell script that some bored SysAdmin wrote during a Jolt break. Cheesy

Quote
My geek degree went the other direction, Applied Physics, so I'm sure were I to be measured by anointed compugeeks I'd be found sorely lacking, ...

Only if you can't discern a telomere from an intron.  But on the physics end, have you heard about the "Emo" baryon?

Quote
Three-quark particle contains one quark from each family.

Batavia, Ill. - Physicists of the DZero experiment at the Department of Energy's Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory have discovered a new heavy particle, the Ξb (pronounced "zigh sub b") baryon, with a mass of 5.774±0.019 GeV/c2, approximately six times the proton mass. The newly discovered electrically charged Ξb baryon, also known as the "cascade b," is made of a down, a strange and a bottom quark. It is the first observed baryon formed of quarks from all three families of matter. Its discovery and the measurement of its mass provide new understanding of how the strong nuclear force acts upon the quarks, the basic building blocks of matter.

More at: http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/press_releases/Dzero_baryon.html
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Bogie

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2007, 08:13:27 PM »
IM sucks for downloading 200 meg files.
 
And Pando ain't much better, and I don't really trust it.
 
Campers, campers, campers...
 
It all really depends on what you use your confuser for.
 
My laptop has only half a gig. Works fine for e-mail, the interwhoozis and Windoze Orifice.

The desktops are completely different beasties.
 
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tyme

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2007, 05:18:01 AM »
Quote
IM sucks for downloading 200 meg files.
Why is that?  Any direct-connect use of IM (whether file transfer or chat) has problems, but that's because of people going NAT-crazy, and has nothing to do with IM itself.  IM file transfers are just file transfers.  They don't inherently suck.

Email sucks for transferring 200 meg files.  That's almost guaranteed to fail, because most mailservers limit max message length to 10-25MB.  Worse, with email there's a tendency to reply/forward without deleting attachments (depending on mail client), so you can end up with several copies of large files in your mailbox.
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Firethorn

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2007, 06:26:24 AM »
Quote
IM sucks for downloading 200 meg files.
Why is that?  Any direct-connect use of IM (whether file transfer or chat) has problems, but that's because of people going NAT-crazy, and has nothing to do with IM itself.  IM file transfers are just file transfers.  They don't inherently suck.

And people are going NAT crazy because we're running out of address space, and don't want to pay the price to get more than one IP address out of their ISP.  Besides, NAT provides a pretty strong natural firewall.

Quote
Email sucks for transferring 200 meg files.  That's almost guaranteed to fail, because most mailservers limit max message length to 10-25MB.  Worse, with email there's a tendency to reply/forward without deleting attachments (depending on mail client), so you can end up with several copies of large files in your mailbox.

And fill your email quota up in moments as well.  Personally, if you're going to be transfering many hundreds of megabytes of files it'd be easy enough to set up a torrent server/tracker and just email/im the tracker file.  As a bonus your bandwidth usage probably won't scale linerally with the number of people downloading it.

By the way:  Mystery quirk time:  Windows XP can't use anything above 3GB, maybe less depending upon stored hardware.  Vista is the same way unless you get the 64bit version.

JohnBT

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Re: Two gigs enough for a dual core? Or should I add more?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2007, 09:49:45 AM »
Heck Bogie, I don't know, but 2 GB doesn't sound like much. I'm running 2 GB with my old 2.4 GHz P4 and thought about filling the slots with 4 - because they're there and if Intel thought 2 GB was enough they wouldn't have allowed for 4.  Smiley

I thought about buying a new pc, but bought a used Rohrbaugh and Rock River AR instead. Looks like I'll never be a dedicated geek, I even changed majors after 3 years of studying physics.

John