Senators strike deal on background checks

[roo_ster]

Frankly I worry about "backpage.com" the most.

I love that place.  Craigslist without the San Francisco kink and anti-gun sentiment.

It's my first-tier gun store nowadays.

Sweet.

One thing though...if you are an adult, interested in jobs, the "adult jobs" linky is a bit more specific than that.  Besides, looking at the ad titles, I doubt I would qualify for any of those jobs.

[Balog]

I wish more folks in WA used backpage (for guns anyway, plenty of pimps selling underage girls on it) but we have a pretty healthy market between armslist and seattleguns.net.

[birdman]

One more thing, the CCW exemption for background checks is only IF the CCW is the equivalent, so that means the following states are no bueno:
Virginia
Georgia
Florida
And others!
See list here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html

Note, the list is as of August 2011, so there are changes, WI in particular, don't know about IL.

[Perd Hapley]

One more thing, the CCW exemption for background checks is only IF the CCW is the equivalent, so that means the following states are no bueno:
Virginia
Georgia
Florida
And others!
See list here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html

Note, the list is as of August 2011, so there are changes, WI in particular, don't know about IL.

I thought the bill was supposed to make all CCW permits an exemption to NICS.

[AZRedhawk44]

I thought the bill was supposed to make all CCW permits an exemption to NICS.

Unless we're gonna just get into the sticky mess of the true meaning of "full faith and credit" of State certifications and the interstate acknowledgement of them... I don't want FedGuv touching anything involving CCW permits.  FedGuv doesn't even need to know if it's illegal to J-walk on a county road, let alone get into CCW standardization or whatever.

This will all come out worse in the end.

We're coming up on DHS pulling the equivalent of a 1774 Provincial Powder Alarm against the colonies, and we don't have any cannon this time around.  They're gonna starve us out of musket and shot before this thing gets going.

[birdman]

I thought the bill was supposed to make all CCW permits an exemption to NICS.

It's unclear.  The license must be approved, so its unknown.

[Perd Hapley]

Unless we're gonna just get into the sticky mess of the true meaning of "full faith and credit" of State certifications and the interstate acknowledgement of them... I don't want FedGuv touching anything involving CCW permits.  FedGuv doesn't even need to know if it's illegal to J-walk on a county road, let alone get into CCW standardization or whatever.

This will all come out worse in the end.

We're coming up on DHS pulling the equivalent of a 1774 Provincial Powder Alarm against the colonies, and we don't have any cannon this time around.  They're gonna starve us out of musket and shot before this thing gets going.

I wasn't coming out in support of the bill. I was just trying to figure out what birdman was saying.

[birdman]

One additional thing, this ammendment wouldn't change the lost/stolen reporting requirement:

(Reported here: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219649 )

SEC. 123. LOST AND STOLEN REPORTING.
(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end--
'(aa) It shall be unlawful for any person who lawfully possesses or owns a firearm that has been shipped or transported in, or has been possessed in or affecting, interstate or foreign commerce, to fail to report the theft or loss of the firearm, within 24 hours after the person discovers the theft or loss, to the Attorney General and to the appropriate local authorities.'.
(b) Penalty- Section 924(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:
'(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (q), or (aa) of section 922;'.

(emphasis mine)

So, you have to notify the ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES that your gun was lost or stolen within 24 hours of the -actual- theft?   Oh, and the penalty is "not more than 5 years"

This bill needs to die a fast and horrible death.

Think about it this way.  Lets say this passes, and in the future they do a registration...the "my guns were/lost stolen a while ago" means go directly to jail. 

Nothing like criminalizing the victim of a crime.

[slingshot]

I agree that this bill should die a fast death.  Everything that seems harmless on the surface like requiring reporting a stolen gun within 24 hours has a double edge to them.  I fully expect registration or a registry implementation to be pushed very hard down the road and all the old laws will remain in effect.  The registry requirement could very easily be interpreted as being required to fulfill the requirements of the UN Small Arms Treaty that was recently signed onto by the USA.  Of course, it has to get Senate confirmation, but it is the law right now.  One can argue that a registry currently conflicts with our Constitution, but laws get passed and it takes years for the dust of constitutionality to settle and the determination is never certain which is why the case goes to the Supreme Court in the first place.

[birdman]

I agree that this bill should die a fast death.  Everything that seems harmless on the surface like requiring reporting a stolen gun within 24 hours has a double edge to them.  I fully expect registration or a registry implementation to be pushed very hard down the road and all the old laws will remain in effect.  The registry requirement could very easily be interpreted as being required to fulfill the requirements of the UN Small Arms Treaty that was recently signed onto by the USA.  Of course, it has to get Senate confirmation, but it is the law right now.  One can argue that a registry currently conflicts with our Constitution, but laws get passed and it takes years for the dust of constitutionality to settle and the determination is never certain which is why the case goes to the Supreme Court in the first place.

A treaty isn't a law (doesnt have power inside the US, doesnt have to be abided by by the US) until its ratified by the senate.

[Tallpine]

What if you just can't remember where you buried your guns 

[Perd Hapley]

So SAF and CCRKBA favor this bill?

[birdman]

So SAF and CCRKBA favor this bill?

Yeah, WTF!  Why do I give them money?

[RocketMan]

So SAF and CCRKBA favor this bill?

I saw that story.  Couldn't believe it wasn't The Onion.

[Ben]

I saw that story.  Couldn't believe it wasn't The Onion.

I've been reading that there is some kind of interstate reciprocity language in it. Could that be why they are giving it a thumbs up? I would not trust any reciprocity language in the thing not to end up screwing us somehow.

[Perd Hapley]

There are a lot of good things in it.

[birdman]

There are a lot of good things in it.

Like what?  I have yet to see any, other than the fact interstate dealers can sell in person.
Every other "positive" has way too many catches.

Even tacit approval of this LETS THEM WIN.

WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE GUN LAWS!

For Christ sake people, its incrementalism at its finest, and we are squabbling over the crumbs.

It won't stop until we all take a stand and say NO MORE.

[birdman]

Also, the T-M ammendment is just an amendment!  The full bill is chock full of other nastiness that this wouldn't fix, INCLUDING the theft reporting crap I mentioned above, and god knows what other garbage.

Remember, we still haven't analyzed the whole thing.

[cosine]

Just finished sending emails to my senators Ron Johnson (he voted against cloture, he should be solid) and Tammy Baldwin (p*** in the wind, but it's worth a shot). I also decided to pre-empt what ever is going to be introduced in the House and emailed my representative, Jim Sensenbrenner, too.

[Perd Hapley]

Like what? 

Here is a list I have seen. I'm not saying it's accurate.

2. Prohibits Government from creating a registry or database of gun owners.
3. Makes it a crime (with actual penalties) for anyone in government to make or keep a database of gun owners.
4. Has financial incentives/penalties for states/tribes to get the mental health adjudication records into the NICS system
5. Adds relief from disabilities (felons rights can actually be restored at the federal level)
6. Helps repair the mess that the VA has done to the Vets on gun rights. Just because the vet turned over fiduciary responsibility to someone does not mean they should lose their rights to own a gun. Let's give then a chance to be heard in court first.
7. Makes it legal to buy a handgun in another state, makes it legal for an FFL to sell across state lines at gun shows, etc. (FFL and NICS still required for all interstate purchases)
8. Tightens the "Hold" times on a NICS check before the transaction is allowed to proceed to eventually 24 hours.
9. Allows a holder of a gun permit issued in the last 5 years to bypass the NICS check where a FFL is used.
10. Adds civil immunity to anyone who sells a gun using a NICS check.
11. Adds that only relevant records may be seized during a NICS check violation investigation.
12. Allows FFLs to make NICS checks on prospective employees if they choose.
13. Makes a NICS check violation a felony w/up to 5 years in jail.
14. Clarifies that FOPA travel includes stopping for fuel, sleep, food, repairs, etc.
15. Add the term "safety device" to the ways a gun can be FOPA transported. This means a locked case is not required if there is a trigger lock?. Ammunition needs to be locked up.
16. Prohibits LEO from detaining or arresting for FOPA travel unless they have proof that transport was in violation of FOPA.
17. Allows Service personnel and spouse to buy guns where they are stationed.
18. Prohibits the FEDS from charging for a NICS check.
19. No records are to be kept by the FEDS or the individuals.
20. Sales of your guns are exempted from the definition of a gun show even if you have more than 75 guns, if you are at your private residence when you make the sale.
21. Nothing prevents a private transfer to someone where there has been no written advertisement by the seller or the buyer.

That said, I reiterate that I want it to die. I would say, let it pass, so the Dems get slaughtered in the next election cycle; but the 2012 election makes me doubt that we are on that side of the looking-glass anymore. Besides, we couldn't trust the GOP to repeal the ugly parts if they got the chance.

[Tallpine]

Prohibits Government from creating a registry or database of gun owners.

I thought that it already was 

So is this like, we really mean it this time illegal ?   

[Perd Hapley]

Even Saturday Night Live knows that gun control is a loser.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/foghorn/snls-take-on-the-background-check-proposal/

[Nick1911]

That said, I reiterate that I want it to die. I would say, let it pass, so the Dems get slaughtered in the next election cycle; but the 2012 election makes me doubt that we are on that side of the looking-glass anymore. Besides, we couldn't trust the GOP to repeal the ugly parts if they got the chance.

This!

[birdman]

More badness revealed:

http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro-gun-provisions-of-manchin-toomey-are-actually-a-bonanza-of-gun-control/

Specifically:

SEC. 128. INTERSTATE TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION.
(a) In General.-Section 926A of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
“926A. Interstate transportation of firearms or ammunition
“(a) Definition.-In this section, the term ‘transport’-
“(1) includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, fuel, vehicle maintenance, an emergency, medical treatment, and any other activity incidental to the transport; and
“(2) does not include transportation-
“(A) with the intent to commit a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year that involves a firearm; or
“(B) with knowledge, or reasonable cause to believe, that a crime described in subparagraph (A) is to be committed in the course of, or arising from, the transportation.

In other words, it eviscerates a bunch of FOPA, mainly by 2.B.

Example, since an unregistered gun (loaded or not) is illegal in NY, 2.B. applies, since a crime is arising from the transportation.

But hey, it does so many good things right?  Like buying interstate?  (Maybe?)

So basically, we need LESS background checks for something that we do rarely (interstate but face to face...still cant ship btw) and MORE for what we do more regularly? (Intrastate face to face)

And the rest of the bill, which isn't modified by the amendment, like the theft provision, is still absolute garbage.

This blows.  Call you senators and congressmen.

[Tallpine]

"In the beginning, Hitler didn't look like, or talk like a monster at all. He talked like an American politician."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvLdRz5pF7s