Author Topic: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!  (Read 16361 times)

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2015, 10:12:14 AM »
Well, maybe there are more exceptions to the rule than you think.  Roughly speaking, you have the brain and the body.

Turns out that the brain can have a gender, and that sometimes it can be the opposite gender from the body.  Call it an 'invisible' case of androgyny.  Because these types can usually say that they 'should' have been the opposite sex from even before puberty.

Please note that these types are NOT 'Gender-fluid' or the other crap I've seen strewn about.  There are a few of that type out there, but they're generally even more screwed in the head and/or simply seeking attention.

If anything, true transgender types support the binary sex theory - they don't want to be 'in between' - they want to be ONE sex.

I'd be careful about these statements, you've been ranting and such as bit yourself.

Shouldn't we then continue to speak out against mad conspiracy theories?  I doubt most transsexuals are marxists.  Instead, this statement seems to be a conspiracy theory on YOUR part.

What the hell does sexual reassignment surgery for willing, even eager, people have to do with destroying the middle class?

No, the hormones they're on for at least 6 months before the surgery change the chemistry, and there are XY females out there and (much fewer) XX Males out there that haven't needed a single bit of surgery.

Personally, I'm for them switching bathrooms when they can pass as their chosen sex under casual scrutiny, not the removal of underwear.  Or are you in the habit of using toilets where there's no stalls?

Is this possibly the core problem?  Concerned for the 'purity' of the women-folk?  You do realize that there are Female to Male types out there, right?  

Hell, one 'fairly masculine' 100% natural female was assaulted some time ago, people thought she was a trannie.  The male security guard followed her into the women's restroom and physically assaulted her before hauling her out.  I imagine he was a bit shocked when he was hauled to jail instead.

A lot of your nonsense above is not based on actual biological science. It is a bunch of theory coming out of the social "sciences".

What does cultural Marxism have to with this? The social "sciences" are dominated by cultural Marxists; so all the crazy gender and racial theories we are being bombarded with are being presented as "science".

Fundamentally changing America by infiltrating and controlling its institutions is and has been the cultural Marxist modus operandi all along. It isn't so a much a conspiracy as it is a battle between those who hold different presuppositions about the nature of humankind and our institutions.

The strength of western culture has historically been drawn from family, tribe and nation with its institutions in turn promoting strengthening those ties. The cultural Marxists are those who have been working successfully to undermine those foundations.

The battle has actually been going on longer than even Marx but his acolytes were some of the first to codify it and those that who have come after have not rested in their work.

Our institutions no longer strengthen traditional family but undermine families in multiple ways, the destruction of gender roles included. The core principles of the founding of our nation have been set aside and replaced with radical egalitarianism. The whole melting pot/we are the world lie is only true when used to attack or weaken the power of the majority culture. Minority cultures are celebrated and held up as not only equal but superior to the traditional majority culture. Religion, one of the final bulwarks against the cultural Marxist followers of scientism is rotting out from inside as cultural Marxist ideas are used as a filter to reinterpret Christianity. It is now safe for our government to take a confrontational and adversarial role against Christianity without consequences.

The sexual confusion around sex ("gender" for the confused) is directly related to the weakening of family, tribe and nation (common culture).

I've bolded the assertions you've made that are unsupportable. The rest of your post is just a bunch of hooey based on your false presuppositions about sex.

I've already stated if it doesn't impact others wallets then "let them do". Nonetheless I still reserve the right and duty to call it confusion and sickness as I see fit.

                                   -  Rant Off  -  
                                             ;)


 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 10:30:40 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

lupinus

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2015, 10:32:13 AM »
Occasional exceptions do not disprove the rule.

If they did, they'd be part of the rules and not the exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2015, 10:34:51 AM »
Occasional exceptions do not disprove the rule.

If they did, they'd be part of the rules and not the exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.

That's not very inclusive :D
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2015, 11:07:12 AM »
Hot off the press.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/civilrights/understanding/section1557/nprmsummary.html

We now or soon will pay for the gender reassignment surgery etc. by the diktat of Obama.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2015, 11:45:15 AM »
Hot off the press.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/civilrights/understanding/section1557/nprmsummary.html

We now or soon will pay for the gender reassignment surgery etc. by the diktat of Obama.



Since I don't support Obamacare for anything, I don't consider this relevant.

It makes no difference what forms of healthcare we are paying for, since the fundamental truth is we shouldn't be paying for any of it.

"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2015, 11:50:54 AM »
You don't need to apologize. I just don't happen to agree with you. A male can't just "self-identify" as a woman any more than that white woman can "self-identify" as a black woman. I'm actually being very lenient recognizing the surgery as marking a switch, because the surgery doesn't alter the body chemistry or the DNA.

My view is that I don't think it's polite for people to claim to be something other than what they are, and I don't think it's polite for men to use the ladies' room.

Oh, I wasn't apologizing.

And since I'm not interested in TSA style stations outside of every public restroom responsible for checking that the appropriate bits and pieces go in the corresponding bathroom, I really think the point is moot.

Again, ladies don't pee in full veiw of one another, so it really doesn't matter.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2015, 11:57:49 AM »
Expanded rapey culture sensitivity and the embrace of transgenderism forces feminists to advocate female modesty!

Feminist heads go all explodey!  :rofl:
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2015, 03:08:18 PM »
Expanded rapey culture sensitivity and the embrace of transgenderism forces feminists to advocate female modesty!

Feminist heads go all explodey!  :rofl:

Modesty?

Dude, seeing other people doing their business is gross.

I don't want to see it, hear it or smell it, thank-you very much!

Besides, feminist hate transgender already.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

lupinus

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2015, 05:20:01 PM »
Modesty?

Dude, seeing other people doing their business is gross.

I don't want to see it, hear it or smell it, thank-you very much!

Besides, feminist hate transgender already.
But who are you to tell them so?


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2015, 05:38:16 PM »
A lot of your nonsense above is not based on actual biological science. It is a bunch of theory coming out of the social "sciences".

What does cultural Marxism have to with this? The social "sciences" are dominated by cultural Marxists; so all the crazy gender and racial theories we are being bombarded with are being presented as "science".

Assertion without basis; meaningless.

Quote
Fundamentally changing America by infiltrating and controlling its institutions is and has been the cultural Marxist modus operandi all along. It isn't so a much a conspiracy as it is a battle between those who hold different presuppositions about the nature of humankind and our institutions.

Given that every nation on earth has these 'problems', it's not marxist.  It's also not about 'America'.

Quote
The strength of western culture has historically been drawn from family, tribe and nation with its institutions in turn promoting strengthening those ties. The cultural Marxists are those who have been working successfully to undermine those foundations.

It requires some rather mighty leaps in thinking to reach 'attacking family, tribe, and nation' from 'I'm the opposite sex from my body in my head'.

Quote
The battle has actually been going on longer than even Marx but his acolytes were some of the first to codify it and those that who have come after have not rested in their work.

Indeed, Damn Marx and his time machine.  I mean, they've been able to identify transexuals in Greek society.

Quote
Our institutions no longer strengthen traditional family but undermine families in multiple ways, the destruction of gender roles included.

Again, the mere existence of transexuals doesn't degrade gender roles.  

Quote
The sexual confusion around sex ("gender" for the confused) is directly related to the weakening of family, tribe and nation (common culture).

You know, you're going to have to support this statement specifically.  You haven't done anything I've seen to actually tie the two together.

Quote
I've bolded the assertions you've made that are unsupportable. The rest of your post is just a bunch of hooey based on your false presuppositions about sex.

Ah, so you think that the brain can't have a gender?  Do you realize that that is an assertation that was believed back in the '70s, and discredited in the '80s by intersex babies where, on the assumption that brains don't have a gender, that they're still plastic after birth, they simply assigned sexes to babies with ambiguous genitilia(often female because that was seen as 'easier').  Cue a horde of boys, surgically altered to be girls, raised as girls, given girl hormones, and psychological therapy aimed at reinforcing their 'girlhood', asserting their boyhood from the time they were able despite all of the above.

Unsupportable?  Let me support it:
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders - Summary:  The brain developing as male/female depends on a hormone surge at a later point in development than for the development of sexual organs.  No hormone surge(or not enough) = female oriented brain, hormone surge = male oriented brain.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09513590400018231
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0447.2000.102004276.x/abstract;jsessionid=E616B36439869DF9768C8F3866516C33.f03t02
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JFpq6hYQRhQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA41&dq=brain+gender+transsexual&ots=FkobAGV4uu&sig=6eTFQTY-H93dSf4lpyGmigHtRIk#v=onepage&q=brain%20gender%20transsexual&f=false

Quote
I've already stated if it doesn't impact others wallets then "let them do". Nonetheless I still reserve the right and duty to call it confusion and sickness as I see fit.

Well, yeah, it's confusing when your brain says one thing and your body something else.  Turns out that the brain differentiates between male/female under the influence of hormones later than the body does.

Now, being the type I am, I will fully admit that a mismatch in the hormone surge is something that went wrong.  However, I WILL NOT consider the resulting transgender person to be a deviant because of it.  

Please note that approximately ZERO people get gender reassignment surgery for the 'hell of it'.  Getting it(in the USA) requires a battery of tests, living as your chosen gender for quite some time, taking hormones that alter the way your body operates, etc...

If you don't have a brain that's telling you that the hormone treatments and such are closer to the way you're supposed to be, you're not going to go through with it.

Bluestar - Even the guys don't pee out in the open.  Remember, we approach the urinal, which today typically has dividing panels between each unit, then, when in place with our backs covering the opening, we remove as little as necessary to do our business.  Considering that most male underwear have flaps, that's typically 'nothing'. 

It would take a while and 'too much attention' to notice a guy who always uses a stall, even just to piss.  Even then, it'd be considered impolite to ask, as some guys have to sit due to injury, disease*, or age.

*Not confined to STD.  Think cancer.

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2015, 10:03:53 PM »
I've never denied that there were androgynous folks who didn't clearly fall into one the two normal sexes. I've addressed that reality earlier in this thread actually.

So most of your post asserting I don't believe in the condition(s) is fighting a strawman of your own construction.

They are a tiny percentage of the population, I suspect smaller than the gay population. The media emphasis on this tiny percentage of the population and the calls to upend our language and culture to accommodate them is lunacy.  

You may believe that the social sciences aren't dominated by cultural Marxists steeped in post modern "thought" but you would be wrong; we can agree to disagree here. I agree with you that post modern thought/cultural Marxism is a problem all western nations are facing, not just America.

Historically all peoples have had a process for teaching boys how to be men and girls how to be women. Families, tribes and nations are all part of the process of teaching the youth about being a man, a woman and a good citizen.

In the US we seem to be OK teaching boys that they can be women, girls that they can be men and that western civilization is an evil that must be cured.

Sow confusion, reap a whirlwind. There's a storm a coming.

  
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:51:24 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #86 on: September 07, 2015, 12:24:49 AM »
I've never denied that there were androgynous folks who didn't clearly fall into one the two normal sexes. I've addressed that reality earlier in this thread actually.

You called them the exception to the rule.  What I mostly objected to in your post is the idea that transgenderism is the product of some sort of Marx conspiracy. 

Other than that - expand your definition of 'androgynous', I guess. 

Quote
So most of your post asserting I don't believe in the condition(s) is fighting a strawman of your own construction.

So you don't believe that transgenderism is some sort of Marxist conspiracy?

Please, identify the strawman.  It may be that you're misreading something I said, I'm not always perfect with putting my words down in a clear fashion, and maybe you're reading something into my post that I didn't intend to be there. 

Quote
They are a tiny percentage of the population, I suspect smaller than the gay population. The media emphasis on this tiny percentage of the population and the calls to upend our language and culture to accommodate them is lunacy.

Yes, it's smaller than the gay population.  That being said, I'm a programmer.  90% of my coding efforts are to account for the 10% edge cases.  There are actually fewer murderers out there, we have plenty of laws and procedures for dealing with them.

As for upending language and culture, you do realize that it's not the trans people calling for that, other than letting them go from 'him to her' and vice versa, as a permanent change, when they're willing to get plastic surgery to make the bits match?  It might be weird, but somebody willing to go through the 'ordeal' of sex reassignment has pretty much earned the right.  Unlike those that don't want hormones, don't want surgery, but DO want to be referred to has 'Hir' and such.  Those are the types I have a beef with.

That actually creates something of a complication.  Hormones are easy, relatively speaking.  Surgery is expensive.  So by refusing to fund their surgeries(or even give them a loan on good terms), one thing to be aware of is that we're actually expanding the 'problem zone' where people have rendered themselves androgynous.  Where they've been taking female hormones for long enough that they've developed breasts and such, but haven't yet gotten a vagina(or a convincing fake) because of lack of funds.  I don't like paying for this sort of stuff with public funds either, but it's a consequence to be aware of.

Now, this may be weird, but back in the day a trans-woman 'won' a big victory in Iran.  Subsequently, there's some issues with 'you like dick?  You're either a trans-woman(and we'll pay for the surgery!) or you're a gay male(death sentence!).  But they don't have bathroom problems because the process is so fast.

Quote
You may believe that the social sciences aren't dominated by cultural Marxists steeped in post modern "thought" but you would be wrong; we can agree to disagree here. I agree with you that post modern thought/cultural Marxism is a problem all western nations are facing, not just America.

??? No, I said that 'transgenderism' is a global phenomenon, and is independent from western thought.

Quote
Historically all peoples have had a process for teaching boys how to be men and girls how to be women. Families, tribes and nations are all part of the process of teaching the youth about being a man, a women and a good citizen.

In the US we seem to be OK teaching boys that they can be women, girls that they can be men and that western civilization is an evil that must be cured.

Okay.  Responding to this is going to take some thought.

First:  Stereotypical gender roles have their downsides as well as upsides.  Should my brother be looked down upon because he's a stay at home dad?  Should we  look down on a woman because she knows how to operate a chainsaw, or a man because he knows how to sew?  Or would a better statement be that we should be teaching children to be adults?

Second:  Going by the studies, we don't need to be teaching boys to be men.  Teaching them that they can be a woman is going to get you looked at funny, unless they happen to be transgender, but then in that case you don't have to tell them they can be a woman - they figure that out on their own.  That stuff, it turns out, is set in the womb.

My theory:  Current protocols are more or less okay.  When somebody ID's themselves as transgender, there's doctors who make sure they aren't doing so out of a desire for attention and what not.  Using established protocols, they determine that, yes, the person is male/female in the head.  After that, they go into a program where they live as their 'chosen' gender and receive hormones for the same.  After being able to pass in public as that gender for at least a certain amount of time, they become eligible for the surgery.  Personally, I'm for changing over documents before the surgery, when they're able to pass in public as that gender, because that will generate the fewest weird looks.  Done.  No big national debate over it needed.

makattak

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2015, 09:35:43 AM »
Well, maybe there are more exceptions to the rule than you think.  Roughly speaking, you have the brain and the body.

Turns out that the brain can have a gender, and that sometimes it can be the opposite gender from the body.  Call it an 'invisible' case of androgyny.  Because these types can usually say that they 'should' have been the opposite sex from even before puberty.

Assertion without basis; meaningless.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:57 PM »
*my quotes*

You think that's an argument?
Let me refer you to another part of my post:
Unsupportable?  Let me support it:
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders - Summary:  The brain developing as male/female depends on a hormone surge at a later point in development than for the development of sexual organs.  No hormone surge(or not enough) = female oriented brain, hormone surge = male oriented brain.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09513590400018231
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0447.2000.102004276.x/abstract;jsessionid=E616B36439869DF9768C8F3866516C33.f03t02
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JFpq6hYQRhQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA41&dq=brain+gender+transsexual&ots=FkobAGV4uu&sig=6eTFQTY-H93dSf4lpyGmigHtRIk#v=onepage&q=brain%20gender%20transsexual&f=false[/quote]

There's the basis for my assertation.

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2015, 09:43:05 PM »
No cherry picking there, no siree Bob  :P
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #90 on: September 07, 2015, 09:44:21 PM »
No cherry picking there, no siree Bob  :P

scholar.google.com, pick the first studies that match the search terms.  Or do you have scientific studies that say something else?   ???

Ron

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2015, 09:49:20 PM »
Why do I need a study?

I'm not the one confused about the sexes.

edited to add: seriously though, those studies don't even approach the weak tea proof of consensus let alone being a fact.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2015, 12:31:34 PM »
Why do I need a study?

I'm not the one confused about the sexes.

edited to add: seriously though, those studies don't even approach the weak tea proof of consensus let alone being a fact.

What can I say but it's actually a relatively marginal topic.  As has been mentioned elsewhere, figuring out more details of our own development aside, not many people suffer from these probelms.  I'm not a medical guy, just using scholar.google.com.  But the studies I looked at treated the hormone-brain thing as more or less settled.

Consider, it's 'weak tea proof', but it's the only 'proof' that's been presented.  Personally, I think it's enough to consider that sometimes surgery is the 'best' answer - it being easier to 'fix' the body than the brain after development.

It's mostly a public issue because the trans people want to be able to switch their documentation over to their desired sex, as well as get the government to mandate insurance policies pay for the surgeries, with the government paying if it's the one providing the medical care(IE CHIP, welfare, medicare, tricare, etc...).  Note, they think it's expensive now, wait until uncle sam or insurance companies are paying!

Meanwhile, on the other side we have people who insist that it's a mental problem(duh!), but in my opinion fail to suggest practical alternatives. 

KD5NRH

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2015, 01:22:40 PM »
You do realize that there are Female to Male types out there, right?

Very few, though, which also raises interesting questions about the entire concept of "male privilege."  After all, shouldn't there be hordes of women seeking to improve their earning potential, be treated better by society, etc.?

Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2015, 01:40:18 PM »
Very few, though, which also raises interesting questions about the entire concept of "male privilege."  After all, shouldn't there be hordes of women seeking to improve their earning potential, be treated better by society, etc.?

They're about 1/3rd as common as MTF, yes.  Which makes some sense if you consider that to get a 'male' brain you need a testosterone surge at the right point of development, meaning that if that's missed for whatever reason you get a female one.  Whereas getting a male brain* in a female fetus would require getting a hormone surge that's not programmed for.  Remember - women do produce testosterone naturally, just reduced amounts compared to men.

But yeah, this endorses the Gender binary - A woman is a woman, typically speaking, and doesn't want to be a man, even if it comes with some advantages.  Advantages which, generally speaking, aren't worth the disadvantages.  The way I put it - the average is about the same for men and women.  However, men have a wider spread.  IE we succeed wildly more often, but so don't we fail.  Men are dis-proportionally represented on both the top and the bottom of the economic success spectrum.

Men have higher rates of genetic disease, suicide, victims of murder, violence, and die sooner.  For every man who 'makes it big' by virtue of being male, you have dozens of homeless.  Homeless men are generally allowed to rot outside.  Homeless female?  That's a critical care point, gotta get her shelter and support ASAP.



*Please note that the brains of trans people are not actually that of the opposite sex, but share some characteristics with the opposite sex.  I'm using 'male brain' and such as a shorthand.

makattak

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2015, 01:44:30 PM »
You think that's an argument?
Let me refer you to another part of my post:
Unsupportable?  Let me support it:
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: Relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders - Summary:  The brain developing as male/female depends on a hormone surge at a later point in development than for the development of sexual organs.  No hormone surge(or not enough) = female oriented brain, hormone surge = male oriented brain.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09513590400018231
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0447.2000.102004276.x/abstract;jsessionid=E616B36439869DF9768C8F3866516C33.f03t02
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JFpq6hYQRhQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA41&dq=brain+gender+transsexual&ots=FkobAGV4uu&sig=6eTFQTY-H93dSf4lpyGmigHtRIk#v=onepage&q=brain%20gender%20transsexual&f=false

There's the basis for my assertation.

Interestingly, the study you actually linked appears to contradict this study: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=49395.0 which says that the brain structures DO change from adulthood use of hormonal treatments.

So the study that "trans-XXX have the brain of their chosen sex" may well be caused by taking the hormones for that sex. Not the reverse.  
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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2015, 01:56:10 PM »
With all the Jenner hoopla going on I started to wonder if he had used steroids for training at any time in his life.

Maybe he baked his endocrine system and physiological changes took place in his brain due to excess estrogen.

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Firethorn

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2015, 01:59:07 PM »
So the study that "trans-XXX have the brain of their chosen sex" may well be caused by taking the hormones for that sex. Not the reverse.

Hmm...  I don't think they're addressing quite the same topics.  Also, biology is 'messy'.  Also, keep in mind that they were assessing FTM transexuals, so how close to 'normal' they already were is questionable.

How about this as a theory:

While hormones continue to influence the brain throughout life, there exists a critical point, while the fetus is still in the womb, where a hormone surge spurs development along a broadly 'male' or 'female' path.  

Depending on hormone uptake, duration, period, levels, and everything else, you may get a person who is physically a fully developed and functional member of one sex, but have a brain 'oriented' to being the opposite sex.  The continued presence of hormones of the physical sex may or may not be enough to 'correct' this viewpoint later on.  However, for at least a subset, standard amounts of hormones that won't cause damage in other ways is not enough to 'correct' the mental viewpoint.  In those cases surgical alteration of the body to match the mind might be the best therapy possible.  Meanwhile, shaming, isolating, deprecating, and otherwise taunting the trans-person is unhelpful to their mental health.

With all the Jenner hoopla going on I started to wonder if he had used steroids for training at any time in his life.

Maybe he baked his endocrine system and physiological changes took place in his brain due to excess estrogen.

Interesting theory...

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2015, 04:11:39 PM »
Interesting theory...

I figure it's just trying to avoid having Bubba for a cellmate when the time to pay the piper finally comes on that wreck.

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Re: Don't like gender reassignment surgery? Get an injunction!
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2015, 11:45:06 AM »
Apparently?  Seriously, one can consider heart surgery extreme, but I doubt any here would argue it's necessity.  The brain surgery that attempts to treat epilepsy by having the connections between the right and left side severed is extreme.

Gender reassignment surgery, on the other hand, is 'merely' plastic surgery.  Techniques pioneered for reconstruction after accidents, to 'correct' those born intersex(or whatever the current term is), and such has given us the ability to do a 'really good' job at it.

Heart surgery and those you listed are attempts to fix organs not operating properly in order to save the life of the patient or enable the patient to function normally.

A sex change operation is not "merely" plastic surgery.  After a male or female has been so mutilated, they can no longer function as male or female.  This mutilation results in a loss of natural function.

There are plenty of 'less intact' males and females out there, for various unfortunate reasons.

Are you a surgeon?  No?  How do you know it's severe?  How do you know it's mutilating?  Do you consider being female being mutilated?  Do you consider being male mutilated?

Your word games are less than impressive.
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roo_ster

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