Local to me news - permit holder killed by police

[Perd Hapley]

It's funny. I don't recall saying that no one from the right side of the aisle has ever called for the murder of anyone.

I do recall commenting on the fact that left-wing press and politicians blame right-wing "rhetoric" for unrelated violence, while downplaying the actual connections between left-wing rhetoric and the violence they commit. I don't see that being refuted any time soon.

[RoadKingLarry]

Big difference is that when someone nominally from the "right" fringe calls for and/or commits a heinous act of violence they have turned out to mostly be whack jobs that are batshit crazy to begin with.
Those on the left that are committing  and/or calling for heinous acts are generally mainstream democrats.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yep.  That kind of crap only serves to create more opportunities for tragedies to happen, and subjects free citizens to the experience of "democracy means uniforms telling you what's what" as a lesson in civics.

Way to celebrate the worst aspects of authority 

I think of it as pragmatism.
When you see a white boy with Maryland tags leaving the stop and cop at Malcom x park in dc you know he's got weed so you bust him.
Likewise the black kid catching the last train in from Bethesda with a car radio in his hand and a screw driver in his back pocket.
Often what looks like a duck is ,in fact, a duck.

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[Perd Hapley]

Duck Lives Matter

[Hawkmoon]

I think of it as pragmatism.
When you see a white boy with Maryland tags leaving the stop and cop at Malcom x park in dc you know he's got weed so you bust him.
Likewise the black kid catching the last train in from Bethesda with a car radio in his hand and a screw driver in his back pocket.
Often what looks like a duck is ,in fact, a duck.

Or not.

A long time ago I went to school in Philadelphia for a couple of years. I lived in an apartment off campus in West Philadelphia, which -- once you get off campus -- is (or was then) predominately black. I was dating a woman who lived in Upper Darby, which is the next municipality west of West Philadelphia. I didn't have a car then, so I rode the bus.

One evening I left her apartment too late, and missed the bus. Not being too bright, it took me some time to figure out that the bus wasn't coming. Back then, "Upper Dumpy" was reputed to be a mafioso bedroom community. The cops knew who they were there to protect. I stood at a bus stop for well over an hour, and had multiple police cars cruise past me. Nobody even noticed. But while I was standing there I saw several instances of cops stopping youths "of color" across the street to see who they were and why they were there.

Once I figured out that I had missed the last bus, I started walking. Again, no issues in Upper Dumpy. I don't think I was more than three or four blocks into West Philadelphia when a Philadelphia PD cruiser stopped me, ran my ID, and asked me what I was doing there.

So -- DWB (Driving While Black), WWW (Walking While White) -- it happens.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's about being out of place.
Gets,a Lotta folks snagged

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[MechAg94]

Profiling can be a useful tool.  There are always exceptions.  The exceptions don't negate the rule.  It can be misused though as law and order isn't always the goal.

[MikeB]

Or not.

A long time ago I went to school in Philadelphia for a couple of years. I lived in an apartment off campus in West Philadelphia, which -- once you get off campus -- is (or was then) predominately black. I was dating a woman who lived in Upper Darby, which is the next municipality west of West Philadelphia. I didn't have a car then, so I rode the bus.

One evening I left her apartment too late, and missed the bus. Not being too bright, it took me some time to figure out that the bus wasn't coming. Back then, "Upper Dumpy" was reputed to be a mafioso bedroom community. The cops knew who they were there to protect. I stood at a bus stop for well over an hour, and had multiple police cars cruise past me. Nobody even noticed. But while I was standing there I saw several instances of cops stopping youths "of color" across the street to see who they were and why they were there.

Once I figured out that I had missed the last bus, I started walking. Again, no issues in Upper Dumpy. I don't think I was more than three or four blocks into West Philadelphia when a Philadelphia PD cruiser stopped me, ran my ID, and asked me what I was doing there.

So -- DWB (Driving While Black), WWW (Walking While White) -- it happens.

Driving while white(DWW) happens in those places too. I live about an hour from Philly. While I rarely go there anymore, when younger we would go down for concerts, nightlife, what have you. Been pulled over multiple times for being white while in the wrong neighborhood. Usually involved making a wrong turn and getting momentarily lost in places that cops weren't used to seeing white people unless they were buying drugs. Also got in an accident once; the person who hit me took off. Had an officer stop to tell me to walk one block and get on train or subway and get out of the area or he couldn't guarantee my safety.

[Hawkmoon]

Also got in an accident once; the person who hit me took off. Had an officer stop to tell me to walk one block and get on train or subway and get out of the area or he couldn't guarantee my safety.

North Philly?

[De Selby]

If there were, why don't you mention at least one example?


So do you think a racist movement that calls for the murder of police officers is at all to blame, when people murder police officers, and call it revenge for Eric Garner and Michael Brown? (New York City, 2014) Or when someone allied with the New Black Panthers goes on a racist killing spree against police, at a BLM event in Dallas?

 
  

Then why did you cite someone NOT saying that?

Also, how many are you calling a lot? Not that one death isn't of huge significance by itself, but you said "a lot," so the numbers must be meaningful to you. How many?

this is exactly what I was saying - you're defining everything on the right as "fringe" and then associating the black fringe with BLM.  It isn't possible to cite an example because your definition of what is an example makes it impossible.  You seem to have adopted the rule that only examples which confirm your bias are valid, and others have millions of fine distinctions that make them irrelevant.

[De Selby]

I think of it as pragmatism.
When you see a white boy with Maryland tags leaving the stop and cop at Malcom x park in dc you know he's got weed so you bust him.
Likewise the black kid catching the last train in from Bethesda with a car radio in his hand and a screw driver in his back pocket.
Often what looks like a duck is ,in fact, a duck.

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Here's the problem - you cite examples of ducks where there is an individualised reason to be suspicious of them.

Pulling someone over for being black, sans for example a radio and screwdriver in the mans hands, isn't legal or decent.  Being black in a used car isn't cause to believe you've committed a crime.

[Perd Hapley]

About Tiller, LOTS of right wingers said it was defense of the innocent to shoot that guy in church.  The rhetoric has been called out for years as baiting murder, and surprise, lots of abortion clinic workers get murdered because of it.  

Again, every death is significant (since all lives matter  ), but since you said "a lot" of people have been killed, let's look at the numbers. Three people have been killed since Tiller, though I don't think any of them were actually clinic employees.

According to the National Abortion Federation, there have been eleven people killed by anti-abortion violence in the U.S., the first one in 1993.

http://prochoice.org/education-and-advocacy/violence/violence-statistics-and-history/



2014: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/21/2-nypd-cops-shot-in-car-critically-injured.html

2015: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-kill-north-county-man-wanted-in-fatal-shooting-of/article_f4629c92-1769-557f-841d-2f8446c162cd.html

2016: Five police officers murdered in Dallas


So in forty-some years (since Roe v Wade), anti-abortion vigilantes have killed 11 people. BLM has killed 8 in under two years.

[De Selby]

Again, every death is significant (since all lives matter  ), but since you said "a lot" of people have been killed, let's look at the numbers. Three people have been killed since Tiller, though I don't think any of them were actually clinic employees.

According to the National Abortion Federation, there have been eleven people killed by anti-abortion violence in the U.S., the first one in 1993.

http://prochoice.org/education-and-advocacy/violence/violence-statistics-and-history/



2014: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/21/2-nypd-cops-shot-in-car-critically-injured.html

2015: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-kill-north-county-man-wanted-in-fatal-shooting-of/article_f4629c92-1769-557f-841d-2f8446c162cd.html

2016: Five police officers murdered in Dallas


So in forty-some years (since Roe v Wade), anti-abortion vigilantes have killed 11 people. BLM has killed 8 in under two years.

Why did you bother reporting the roughly 35 percent larger killing toll by anti-abortion activists?  I thought that was all just the irrelevant fringe!

[zxcvbob]

Why did you bother reporting the roughly 35 percent larger killing toll by anti-abortion activists?  I thought that was all just the irrelevant fringe!

I suspect the number is higher than he expected, and he reported it anyway.  Are you deliberately ignoring the 40 year time span?  BLM has only been around, what, 2 years?  What will their body count be 10 years from now, much less 40?  (not enough data yet to extrapolate with any confidence)

[Perd Hapley]

this is exactly what I was saying - you're defining everything on the right as "fringe" and then associating the black fringe with BLM.  It isn't possible to cite an example because your definition of what is an example makes it impossible.  You seem to have adopted the rule that only examples which confirm your bias are valid, and others have millions of fine distinctions that make them irrelevant.

You're making things up now, because I haven't said anything like that. I never drew any line between the fringe and the mainstream. I did acknowledge that the internet is rife with violent talk from all sides. But I was referring to people like Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh, and the Tea Party movement, all of which have been falsely accused of inciting violence at various times. Again, to clarify, I wasn't talking about them because they're not "fringe," but because they, specifically, have been unfairly accused.

We have video of BLM chanting for "dead cops."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Is there such a video or audio from Fox News programs, from Rush Limbaugh, from a Tea Party rally, or any other such? And who has been murdered because of it?

And again, your Ann Coulter quote is not an example of this. You're smart enough to understand why.

[De Selby]

I suspect the number is higher than he expected, and he reported it anyway.  Are you deliberately ignoring the 40 year time span?  BLM has only been around, what, 2 years?  What will their body count be 10 years from now, much less 40?  (not enough data yet to extrapolate with any confidence)

BLM isn't the cause of the bodies.  Radical black nationalism in response to police brutality and murders has been around longer than abortion and in truth, if we are counting back to Roe v Wade we should be counting back to the Black Panther heyday for comparable extremist kill totals.

[Perd Hapley]

BLM isn't the cause of the bodies.  Radical black nationalism in response to police brutality and murders has been around longer than abortion and in truth, if we are counting back to Roe v Wade we should be counting back to the Black Panther heyday for comparable extremist kill totals.

I accept. Add to the count, if you like.

[De Selby]

You're making things up now, because I haven't said anything like that. I never drew any line between the fringe and the mainstream. I did acknowledge that the internet is rife with violent talk from all sides. But I was referring to people like Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh, and the Tea Party movement, all of which have been falsely accused of inciting violence at various times. Again, to clarify, I wasn't talking about them because they're not "fringe," but because they, specifically, have been unfairly accused.

We have video of BLM chanting for "dead cops."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Is there such a video or audio from Fox News programs, from Rush Limbaugh, from a Tea Party rally, or any other such? And who has been murdered because of it?

And again, your Ann Coulter quote is not an example of this. You're smart enough to understand why.

Million marchers video, as in Louis Farrakhans million?

Palin:

http://gawker.com/5728545/shot-congresswoman-was-in-sarah-palins-crosshairs

Rush:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2009/07/06/olbermann-gives-limbaugh-worst-person-runner-up/151797


That's more explicit than what any official of the BLM movement has said, but hey, who's counting?  

[Perd Hapley]

Oh, were those Million Man marcher guys too much on the fringe? Are they not BLM-ey enough for you?

You're hilarious. Thanks for propping up my point. On the Palin thing, your own link (after the moral panic about some obviously metaphoric language) admits that there's no link between the shooter and Palin.

There's no indication that the gunman who shot down Rep. Giffords was motivated by politics.

The Limbaugh thing is even weaker, for your point. How is anyone incited to violence by Rush talking about how the Hondurans should invade us? As Honduras didn't invade, it apparently incited no one.


Sad. You're so off your game today.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Here's the problem - you cite examples of ducks where there is an individualised reason to be suspicious of them.

Pulling someone over for being black, sans for example a radio and screwdriver in the mans hands, isn't legal or decent.  Being black in a used car isn't cause to believe you've committed a crime.

You not aware of the radio transcripts? Or just feigning unawareness?

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[De Selby]

You not aware of the radio transcripts? Or just feigning unawareness?

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That's covered in this very thread.  What specific cause did you see?

Officer:  "he's got a wide nose.  Bet it's our robbery suspect."

Reviewing Judge: "sounds like probable cause to me....not! #notalllooksame.com"

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You see the pics of the robber?

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[De Selby]

You see the pics of the robber?

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Yep, on that cracked out website.  Looked about as similar to the victim as the "gun" photos did to each other.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Maybe to someone of the "they all look alike class."
Is that you? Tsk tsk
"

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[De Selby]

Maybe to someone of the "they all look alike class."
Is that you? Tsk tsk
"

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Yeah, no.  That was the point - shouting "I have cause" and "I think that's the perps nose" isn't terribly convincing, and the treehouse photos are clownish attempts to make a case of it.