Author Topic: Montana moves to repeal medical marijuana laws (Read 50868 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #100 on:** February 17, 2011, 03:27:35 PM »

Quote from: mtnbkr on February 17, 2011, 03:05:48 PM

Huh? Weren't you the one some time a year or so ago bragging how you called out someone who pilfered some candy at a candy store? If that was worth policing (and it didn't directly involve you then either), why isn't is worthwhile to police "activists" in the MM debate?

So, that's worth making a scene over, but keeping others from co-opting a movement that is truly important to you isn't?

I'm not anti-legalization, just trying to understand the change in opinion.

Chris

that modality of thinking has haunted the pro pot movement from word one. at all levels. the pro pot movement can't even support itself. were it not for the largess of 1 or 2 millionaires it would have blown away decades ago. the ennui that accompanies too many of the chronic users is ironically working against "le cause"

"the movement" seems unable to shed its dazed and confused imagery/identity. till it does i expect much noise and movement lil result, like milking that mouse. it retains that "stoner clique" mentality where "no narcs" is the pale version of "no snitchin". and that has consequences. for the pro pot movement the irony is they have met the enemy, and it is them, but they haven't figured it out yet.

a lil snapshot of one norml function i worked at. it was a conference at the mayflower hotel in 89- 91 time period. it was a failed attempt to act mainstream and show that they could eat at the grownups table. major fail from the perspective of a spectator. if they want to be seen as responsible and viable they must quit letting their public face be guys like the fool in montana. it taints them in the same way that shawna ford tainted the minutemen.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #101 on:** February 17, 2011, 03:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Tallpine on February 17, 2011, 03:22:07 PM

Mal in se vs mal prohibitum

I get that, but we're talking about something that is pretty damn important to PTK vs MM.

Or did I get that backwards?

Anyway, the point is, if MM is that important to his well-being, then working to push the bozos out of the movement might be a worthwhile endeavor.

Chris

Seenterman · « **Reply #102 on:** February 17, 2011, 03:42:36 PM »

Can anyone answer me what makes marijuana worse than alcohol? Anyone?!? What's the major difference? There both mind altering depressants? What because some puritanical think it will cause people to turn into helpless addicts? Yea, didn't we hear that argument against alcohol?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #103 on:** February 17, 2011, 03:43:14 PM »

at leasr work to keep em from being the public face. but doing so would make one "uncool"

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #104 on:** February 17, 2011, 03:46:41 PM »

Quote from: Seenterman on February 17, 2011, 03:42:36 PM

Can anyone answer me what makes marijuana worse than alcohol? Anyone?!? What's the major difference? There both mind altering depressants? What because some puritanical think it will cause people to turn into helpless addicts? Yea, didn't we hear that argument against alcohol?

wait! pots a mind altering depressant? but i thought it was without harm? what flawed study did you use?! i'm so confused!

all kidding aside pot is no where near as bad as booze. i would hope my kids pass on both but if they don't and i got to chose i would rather they get stoned than drunk. not gonna happen legally for quite a while. and if the big money guys die so will the movement they've carried financially

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #105 on:** February 17, 2011, 04:09:57 PM »

"mind-altering" =/= harmful.

I am drinking a mind-altering stimulant right now. It's called 'tea'.

Seenterman · « **Reply #106 on:** February 17, 2011, 04:51:57 PM »

Quote

no but if you and the other gun owners allow one of the boys to run amok and grin amongst yourselves and tacitly approve and cooperate you can't whine when as a result some new onerous laws gets passed to regulate the behavior you enabled.

Sort of like if a gun store was publicly helping people make Straw Purchases so that prohibited people could get guns. Perhaps we may believe that too many people are prohibited from purchasing guns, but we would SOUNDLY condemn that store and work to get them shut down because they hurt the cause of gun rights. Those who wish to get medical marijuana should be reporting and working against those who are using it as a scam.

So, apparently medical marijuana isn't important enough for you to do a little policing?

I know quite a few areas in the Bronx & Queens where gang member are using guns illegally, killing people, and giving anti-gun protesters fuel to launch their attacks against the 2nd. Will you volunteer to police these areas and look and report people carrying guns illegally? Surly you value the 2nd amendment enough to volunteer to do the polices job for them, because if you don't you clearly don't value the 2nd. Correct?

Quote

guys like him can only exist with the tacit approval of the others. its called crapping where you eat

So are you saying I approve of the gang member who shoot innocent people because I believe in the 2nd Amendment? Why should MMJ supporters have to go root out criminals that aren't hurting anyone? Should 2nd Amendment supports be the first out their on the streets making sure criminals aren't using guns? Because those idiots kill people. MMJ abusers, how many have they killed? 0?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #107 on:** February 17, 2011, 04:55:17 PM »

MMJ abusers, how many have they killed? 0?

theres that artistic license again its part and parcel of "the movements " fail and as a result we have the pendulum swings against it

Seenterman · « **Reply #108 on:** February 17, 2011, 04:59:34 PM »

Quote

I am drinking a mind-altering stimulant right now. It's called 'tea'.

My entire office is addicted to a mind-altering stimulant!!!! We spend $100's a month on this addiction!!!
Caffeine, it's a hell of a drug.

Seenterman · « **Reply #109 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:00:48 PM »

Quote

theres that artistic license again its part and parcel of "the movements " fail and as a result we have the pendulum swings against it

Check into what question marks mean my friend.
Ya know
? <--- That

roo_ster · « **Reply #110 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:08:44 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 17, 2011, 03:15:49 PM

i thought that your failed premise was that an adolescent stoner hurt no one but himself? are you backing off that? do you think an adolescent stoner doesn't hurt his parents? siblings? i mean in real life not some college coffee house abstract discussion

Uh, no, not backing off of MB's moral calculus. It stands, despite the CSD squid ink: the person using such a substance is morally superior to the person who uses gov't force against that user for their use.

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 17, 2011, 03:15:49 PM

even in the areas where it is legal folk grow it inside . for several good reasons.
its amusing to me. i was a wake and bake guy for more than 2 decades, and grew or assisted in growing a bit of weed. the pontificating from the bleachers is akin to my writing first person about the joys of child birth. i daily am involved with young stoners who are attempting to reorder their lives and the glib "stuff " i am hearing is funny. what i see here is "reefer madness" in reverse. i was pro legalization before many of you were born and remain so. trying to float that principle on a sea of manure is serious fail and counter productive. recent reversals in the limited progress prove that point.

Oh, sure somewhere, someone would still grow MJ inside their house. People still brew their own beer, too.

Thing is, once it is made legal, quality standards are promulgated, and it is readily available, the cost will be so cheap, the rate/incidence of MJ grown indoors would plummet the same way the volume of bootleg alcohol plummeted after prohibition was repealed.

Your having used lots of drugs does not invalidate basic economics.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #111 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:12:34 PM »

your knowledge of how one grows quality weed is comparable to my understanding of physics. and it still fails to address the fact that even where its legal folks are getting robbed and killed

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #112 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:15:15 PM »

People also get killed by winos looking to get vodka money.

That's irrelevant to the simple fact that drinking alcohol, and even being a wino, is not in itself harmful to others.

PTK · « **Reply #113 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:16:06 PM »

I grow marijuana quite easily in my apartment. I currently have four plants growing. It's ordinary, here, for legitimate medical users to grow their own - that was the original intent of the law. With simple instructions from the local clinics and whatnot, I've been able to grow (for a few dollars/oz) product on par with the top quality available product which is $250/oz. :)

Just sayin', roo_ster - C&SD has you, there.

Also, C&SD, I think that's either the third or fourth time we've ever fully agreed on a single point. :D

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #114 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:25:49 PM »

it happens i'm a legalize it all let darwin sort it out guy. all the tap dancing and fertilizer make for fun rants at the campus starbucks but its not very productive. pro pot people can't/won't support their own movement. instead rely on welfare from 1 or 2 benefactors, that points to a key failing. if you don't want it bad enough to work/support it it won't/shouldn't happen

roo_ster · « **Reply #115 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:27:40 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 17, 2011, 05:12:34 PM

your knowledge of how one grows quality weed is comparable to my understanding of physics. and it still fails to address the fact that even where its legal folks are getting robbed and killed

MJ is not so magical it somehow bends both the laws of physics and economics. My main worry if MJ is legalized is that it will somehow end up in the farm subsidy program.

People are also getting robbed and killed where MJ is illegal and GeneralÃssimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Quote from: PTK on February 17, 2011, 05:16:06 PM

I grow marijuana quite easily in my apartment. I currently have four plants growing. It's ordinary, here, for legitimate medical users to grow their own - that was the original intent of the law. With simple instructions from the local clinics and whatnot, I've been able to grow (for a few dollars/oz) product on par with the top quality available product which is $250/oz. :)

Just sayin', roo_ster - C&SD has you, there.

Also, C&SD, I think that's either the third or fourth time we've ever fully agreed on a single point. :D

If ADM cultivated hundreds of thousands of acres of it legally across Kansas, it wouldn't be $250/oz on the open market.

Here is what I found WRT the cost of alcohol during prohibition:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1071773
"Fisher’s alcohol price index shows that average increase in alcohol price is about 360 percent between 1916 and 1928"

Using that data, the $250/oz MJ would run a little less than $70/oz. Sure, some would still find it worth their while to grow it indoors, but not nearly as many as do now.

Also, PTK, have you trashed your domicile so that you have become a burden to your neighbors? Illegally tapped into the power grid due to your four plants? The article that prompted that part of the discussion focused on mass-growers who trashed their houses, ruined the neighborhood, and committed all sort of othe racts already currently illegal.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #116 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:35:31 PM »

to grow good pot, the only kind worth growing anymore you need to grow indoors. its about eliminating the male plants. you also control the environment very closely. the pot of today is quite different than the ditchweed of my youth and a very valuable commodity. its potency is quite remarkable. its not what the folks in the bleachers imagine

Seenterman · « **Reply #117 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:37:29 PM »

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the fact that even where its legal folks are getting robbed and killed

Wrong. No where in the U.S. is MJ 100% legal to grow. *If* somewhere it is 100% legal to grow in an area under local laws its still highly illegal under federal laws. So why would you as an enterprising criminal set up a grow house, wait the four months for your plants to grow and mature, all the while you could be arrested and set to federal prison?

Or you could find someone who does the growing and wait until right before the plants mature to rob them. Saves you a lot of risk, what an hour to commit the robbery and another then move the product to buyers, and if you have a wholesale buyer lined already the entire criminal act might take you one evening to make a couple of thousand dollars. Or you could spend about a thousand to set up a grow room, and be at risk of getting arrested for 4 - 6 months. Which do you think sounds easier to a criminal?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #118 on:** February 17, 2011, 05:57:55 PM »

wait let me get this straight, its the feds fault that the various scumbags that play with the "movement" are ripping and killing? really? fascinating premise

PTK · « **Reply #119 on:** February 17, 2011, 06:01:25 PM »

I can honestly say I'm unable to follow the conversation anymore. Could folks possibly summarize their stance? I really do want to participate but things flying back and forth have clouded even what were clear positions at first. :)

roo_ster · « **Reply #120 on:** February 17, 2011, 06:08:09 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 17, 2011, 05:35:31 PM

to grow good pot, the only kind worth growing anymore you need to grow indoors. its about eliminating the male plants. you also control the environment very closely. the pot of today is quite different than the ditchweed of my youth and a very valuable commodity. its potency is quite remarkable. its not what the folks in the bleachers imagine

<Son of former corn & soybean farmer>

Roger that.

Many of their methods were developed by legitimate farmers & the ag industry. I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that if modern ag R&D were devoted to MJ, ADM could rival current quality indoor MJ in some years' time, increasing yield and quality.

Like I wrote, my biggest fear WRT MJ legalization is that it then somehow becomes another crop fo rhte FDA to fiddle with.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #121 on:** February 17, 2011, 06:17:49 PM »

i don't think they want to or will be allowed to grow that high quality. the pot i last smoked was damn near disabling. and i was a 10 12 times a day smoker. it was like everclear compared to near beer.

Seenterman · « **Reply #122 on:** February 17, 2011, 06:54:38 PM »

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wait let me get this straight, its the feds fault that the various scumbags that play with the "movement" are ripping and killing? really? fascinating premise

Your reading comprehension failed so hard I'm wondering if it's intentional. But I'll try to explain again. You claimed that people are still being murdered and robbed where MJ is legal. First off MJ isn't legal to grow anywhere in the US as per federal law.
Second I tried to illustrate quickly why people who grow are getting robbed. Because it's more of a short term risk for the criminal to steal a mature plants rather than setting up their own grow houses and waiting 4-6 months for their own plants to grow and mature. It's not the Feds fault that there are people willng to murder to get high, but their policy isn't helping. How many people get murdered for liquor? Why would things be different for legal weed?

Tallpine · « **Reply #123 on:** February 17, 2011, 07:10:48 PM »

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My main worry if MJ is legalized is that it will somehow end up in the farm subsidy program.

So I could get paid to NOT grow it..?

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #124 on:** February 17, 2011, 07:21:48 PM »

Let me see.

C&SD, we are both pro-legalization, as you stated repeatedly on this thread.

Neither of us do drugs.

Why do you think that I disagree with you? As in, do you understand the difference between our positions? Do you at least understand why I disapprove of your suggestion?

I am not trying to call you out, I'm trying to understand if you see where I am coming from.

News:

Author Topic: Montana moves to repeal medical marijuana laws (Read 50868 times)