A SEAL Team could take care of this BS...

[Werewolf]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27820573/

Why are the civilized nations of the world putting up with this crap. Send military forces into the Pirate's Bases and just wipe the suckers out. That way the sea lanes don't have to be patrolled.

What - the nations harboring the pirates will complain you say? Who cares. What are they gonna do - declare war on the USA or France or ... Yeah right and if they did so what?

Wipe the criminal sons of unwed mothers off the face of the planet and they cease to be a problem.

Put armed mercenaries on the ships - that's got to be cheaper than paying the ransoms for the things.

Make it a crime for the shipping companies to pay ransom - if there's no money in it for the pirates they'll go somewhere else.

Still IMO the simplest, most direct and solution that will finally resolve the problem is to just locate pirate bases and wipe 'em out.

This whole pirate thing amazes me. Seems like a simple problem to resolve.

Hijackers have reportedly demanded a $25 million dollar ransom for the release of the oil tanker Sirius Star, seen here anchored off the coast of Somalia on Wednesday.
 View related photos  Video

 
  Somali pirates release two hijacked ships
  Nov. 20: U.S. military officials say Somali pirates get almost $2 million for one of the chemical tankers. NBC's Jim Maceda reports.
MSNBC
 
 

   Pirates testing limits of international law
Nov. 19: Under current U.S. military rules, American warships can only open fire in self-defense or if they catch pirates in the act, leaving little legal recourse for the increasing number of cargo ships vulnerable to attack.
MOGADISHU, Somalia - Somali pirates released two hijacked ships after ransoms were paid, U.S. military officials said Thursday.

The deals emerged as Britain warned that paying for the release of hostages risks encouraging more piracy.

NBC News reported that the Great Creation, a Hong Kong-flagged chemical tanker seized on Sept. 18, was released after a $1.67 million ransom was paid.

The Genius, another Hong Kong-flagged chemical tanker which was hijacked Sept. 26, was also released in exchange for an unknown sum.

Earlier this week, pirates released the Stolt Valor, a Japanese chemical tanker after paying hijackers $2.5 million.

Gunmen from the chaotic Horn of Africa country grabbed world headlines with Saturday's spectacular capture of a huge Saudi Arabian supertanker loaded with $100 million worth of oil, the biggest ship hijacking in history.

'Scourge'
Since seizing the Sirius Star oil tanker, pirates have hijacked at least three other ships, maritime officials say. The supertanker's owners are in ransom talks.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said Thursday it was vital the international community stand firm against the "scourge" of hostage-taking. He said Britain won't pay a ransom for two Britons being held by pirates off the east African coast.

"Payments for hostage-taking are only an encouragement to further hostage taking," he said.


  Click for related content
Interactive: Piracy attacks 2008


Miliband's office said Britons Peter French and James Grady are among the crew aboard the Sirius Star.

The Saudi Arabian tanker was seized 450 nautical miles southeast of Mombasa, Kenya — far beyond the gangs' usual area of operations. It was believed to be anchored near Eyl, a former Somali fishing village that is now a well-defended pirate base.

The audacity of the attack underlined the extent of a crime wave that experts say has been fueled by the Iraq-style Islamist insurgency onshore, dimming hopes for U.N.-led peace talks, and the lure of multi-million-dollar ransoms.

$2.5 million ransom rejected
Somali gunmen are believed to be holding more than 200 hostages and about a dozen ships in the Eyl area, including a Ukrainian vessel loaded with 33 tanks and other heavy weapons.

An associate of the gang holding that ship, the MV Faina, said they rejected a $2.5 million ransom offer this week.

"The pirates and a broker met in the forest between Galkayo and Haradheere ... but the pirates stood by their demand for $8 million," the associate, Hussein Hassan, told Reuters.

Meanwhile, African Union's top diplomat said Thursday that the United Nations should send peacekeepers to Somalia amid the growth in piracy.

Jean Ping, chairman of the African Union Commission, said the increasing piracy was being aggravated by the country's feuding politicians and "a clear indication of the further deterioration of the situation with far-reaching consequences for this country, the region and ... international community."


  Click for related content
U.N.: Somali pirates are hurting homeland
Suspected pirate 'mother ship' sunk
Somali pirates turn villages into boomtowns
Why Somali pirates are hard to beat


Scores of attacks in Somali waters this year have driven up insurance costs for shipping firms, and even made some companies divert cargo around South Africa's Cape of Good Hope.

Forces from NATO, the European Union and elsewhere are trying to protect vessels on one of the world's busiest shipping routes, linking Europe to Asia. Some nations seek a more robust response and say the hijackings will continue without political reconciliation onshore, where an Islamist insurgency rages.

Moscow has suggested international forces should help it attack the pirates' land bases. A Russian news agency said on Thursday that more Russian warships would go to the region.

Speaking during a visit to Ghana late on Wednesday, NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said the alliance was committed to helping improve security on the continent — but it expected African states to take the lead in combating piracy.

At an emergency meeting on piracy in Cairo, however, an Egyptian government spokesman said African countries were unable to deal with the attacks and needed foreign intervention

[El Tejon]

I'd prefer a Letter of Marque or two.

Kill them and keep 10%.

[HankB]

News story last night said that nations "didn't know what to do" with captured pirates, as the law was "murky."

Maybe the pirates are making kickbacks to some people in politics . . . frankly, IMHO pirates shouldn't be taken alive.

[MicroBalrog]

News story last night said that nations "didn't know what to do" with captured pirates, as the law was "murky."

Is that PC-speak for 'we ran out of rope'?

[SADShooter]

Most of the world's civilized nations, UN member states, anyway, are more concerned with dedicating ceiling "art" than addressing real problems, like, say, Russia/Georgia. These are the same people who would rather let African genocide happen than have it stopped by means they didn't rubber stamp.

[freedom lover]

I vote we nuke Somalia.

(Bad enough without the obvious muslim reference, so I cleaned it up...)

[Viking]

I vote that we try to get the APS Pirate Hunting Expedition up and running. We've got enough veterans and brave adventurers to pull it off methinks.

[MikePGS]

Honestly the people who have oil tankers or other valuable ships in the area SHOULD hire mercenaries and order them to kill anyone attempting to come on board without proper authorization.

[ilbob]

Most of the world's civilized nations, UN member states, anyway, are more concerned with dedicating ceiling "art" than addressing real problems, like, say, Russia/Georgia. These are the same people who would rather let African genocide happen than have it stopped by means they didn't rubber stamp.

I don't know that there is much practical that we can do to stop the killing in Africa. Its been going on for tens of thousands of years. The only feasible way would be to just go there and take it over. The colonial powers did a fair job of putting a halt to the local's typical behaviors. As might be expected when civilization left Africa, the uncivilized took over.

[Dannyboy]

Honestly the people who have oil tankers or other valuable ships in the area SHOULD hire mercenaries and order them to kill anyone attempting to come on board without proper authorization.

Working for a company that is in the industry, I can tell you, it's not as easy as you might think.

[SADShooter]

ilbob:

I was referring to successful actions, by Executive Outcomes in Angola and Sierra Leone, for example, that the UN actively quashed. Short-term cessation of violence can be fairly easily and inexpensively accomplished. Your broader point concerning the long-term stability issues in Africa is quite valid.

SADShooter

[freedom lover]

We could always nuke it... 

[Dannyboy]

The colonial powers did a fair job of putting a halt to the local's typical behaviors. As might be expected when civilization left Africa, the uncivilized took over.

It's not PC to say it but Buckley was right.

[RevDisk]

Most of the world's civilized nations, UN member states, anyway, are more concerned with dedicating ceiling "art" than addressing real problems, like, say, Russia/Georgia. These are the same people who would rather let African genocide happen than have it stopped by means they didn't rubber stamp.

I am not an expert on African ethnic wars.  My experience in the Balkans was that the locals have been killing each other since records exist and will never stop short of successfully wiping out the other tribe.  The best course of action is either to stay out, or pull a Tito/Saddam.  Brutally suppressing your population will stop the ethnic strife, but that comes with its own ethical problems. 

The US staying out of Darfur or Rwanda was probably the brightest thing we've done in a long time. 

[El Tejon]

It's not like the USA does not have a history of fighting the Muslim pirates in Africa.  Heck, the Marines have a line in their theme song about it.

I think that Sleep, Eat And Lift and the Marines should be killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq and let the private sector kill the pirates.

[SADShooter]

RevDisk:

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and I wasn't advocating US intervention in Darfur or elsewhere. My point is simply that the UN and the "community of nations" are generally hypocrites (your time in the Balkans as an exception, thank you) for refusing to aggressively intervene in such circumstances one one hand, while simultaneously suppressing local governments or private entities from resolving their problems independently, especially with private resources, on the other.

[roo_ster]

The US staying out of Darfur or Rwanda was probably the brightest thing we've done in a long time. 

Roger that.

[RevDisk]

RevDisk:

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and I wasn't advocating US intervention in Darfur or elsewhere. My point is simply that the UN and the "community of nations" are generally hypocrites (your time in the Balkans as an exception, thank you) for refusing to aggressively intervene in such circumstances one one hand, while simultaneously suppressing local governments or private entities from resolving their problems independently, especially with private resources, on the other.

Yea, probably shouldn't thank me... the only real contact I had with the UN was screaming fire correction to either Albanians or Serbs attempting to use RPG's as indirect fire over a hill while I was smoking a Cuban and nearly dying from laughing so hard...   Thankfully none of the UN personnel noticed an American on a hilltop screaming "Adjust fire left, 200m.   NO, LEFT.   YOUR OTHER LEFT!"   Apparently, the folks firing understood my (really bad) suggestions/cursing in German, Albanian, Serbo-Croat and English, because they were laughing pretty hard too.  (maybe that's why they couldn't hit jack..)   

[Waitone]

If they want to kill each other, so be it.  A line has to be drawn at unimpeded shipping in the world's waterways.  I find the whole story somewhat odd.  Suddenly and swiftly out of the clear blue regional pirates successfully assault international shipping.  The world's tough-guy (USA) simultaneously goes jello spine.  One country not known for its nautical warfare skills takes action and sinks a ship full of said pirates.  The world's tough guy (USA) says not a lot can be done; the same tough guy with gazillions of dollars worth of satellite surveillance (a lot of it devoted to following the world's shipping), and recon drones with nasty arms.

Is Bush flipping O the bird as he leaves?  Or is the military taking early orders and standing down from using force in the region?  I don't know what is going on but I'm certain that we ain't seein' it all. 

[agricola]

If they want to kill each other, so be it.  A line has to be drawn at unimpeded shipping in the world's waterways.  I find the whole story somewhat odd.  Suddenly and swiftly out of the clear blue regional pirates successfully assault international shipping.  The world's tough-guy (USA) simultaneously goes jello spine.  One country not known for its nautical warfare skills takes action and sinks a ship full of said pirates.  The world's tough guy (USA) says not a lot can be done; the same tough guy with gazillions of dollars worth of satellite surveillance (a lot of it devoted to following the world's shipping), and recon drones with nasty arms.

Is Bush flipping O the bird as he leaves?  Or is the military taking early orders and standing down from using force in the region?  I don't know what is going on but I'm certain that we ain't seein' it all. 

The problem is that the people who are (thanks to Nov 4th) in charge in nearly every Western country really do not have a clue about how anything works, apart from their own narrow field of interest (politics) - which means that they hand down policies and decisions that lean from the misguided all the way to the imbecilic. 

An example of the latter might be, say, the RN (under pressure from the Government) having to beg Kenya to take the pirates they captured last week to prevent them claiming asylum in the UK - apparently, they couldnt be returned to the country they had just sailed from in case they were injured as a result ( link - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5193601.ece ).  The Indians have less of these problems, and so their navy shooting up a pirate ship is unlikely to result in the tide of hand-wringing apologia, lawsuits and general condemnation that would result over here in the UK.

The solutions?  Either convoys (better than random patrols, even now), or giving everyone licence to shoot pirates again - something will have to be done, as they have realised that they can make a lot of money easily this way (and if they have realised it, you can be sure that every other failed or failing state near a shipping route will be realising it as well).  Q-ships would also be an amusing addition to the mix, especially if you fitted them with cameras and showed the results on prime-time tv.

[De Selby]

I don't doubt that the world's powers would like to stamp out these crooks-and it's not like Somalia has tons of political pull on the international stage.  It was just invaded and had its gang-of-the-year removed most recently without any real retaliation from the locals against the powers that backed the invasion.

I imagine it's quite a bit harder than it sounds to either a) find the pirates on the sea or b) find the pirate bases on land.  I'm pretty sure they don't have skull and crossbones flags flying to let you know that they're pirates, and from the pictures of the "speed boats" (they look like something from the mad max series) they pilot, it'd be fairly hard to spot the vessel of a pirate apart from those of a schmuck who fishes near the shore.

The best solution would probably be to find the strongest Somali gang/"pirate" crew, and pay them a yearly fee to raid and kill the other pirates in protection of the shipping lanes.

[Bigjake]

Or we could just kill the badguys rather than negotiating or bribing them.....  :rolleyes:

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The best solution would probably be to find the strongest Somali gang/"pirate" crew, and pay them a yearly fee to raid and kill the other pirates in protection of the shipping lanes.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

It's been some 200 years, and yet again we're debating whether or not to pay tribute to North African Muslim pirates.

[De Selby]

Or we could just kill the badguys rather than negotiating or bribing them.....  :rolleyes:

That's easier said than done, obviously.  If we knew who the bad guys were and where they were all at, there wouldn't have been more than one hijacking in the first place.  

It's nice to hoot and holler about "kill them! Don't deal!", but unless you plan on learning to speak somali and investing the several vessels' worth of resources into (probably fruitlessly, most of the time) searching the Somali coastline on foot....yeah, it's mainly talk.

[Bigjake]

It's funny, but somehow I knew you'd find a way to justify grabbing your ankles before you even posted. 

Anti piracy is cheap and relatively easy, given that Somalia proper doesn't give a rip about these guys or have enough international clout to be bothered with.

I saw an article years back, about some Mercs off the Ivory Coast.  They got a nice looking yacht, and cruised around til' pirates took the bait, and then slaughtered them to a man.

Didn't hear a thing about the folks in question learning Somali, either.