Author Topic: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"  (Read 15996 times)

Manedwolf

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This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« on: January 08, 2009, 03:57:28 PM »
Quote
We are not saying we will stop firing rockets from the Gaza Strip to Israel - we are only talking about stopping the aggression from the Israelis against the civilian population in the Gaza Strip.

When others talk about a ceasefire, they are saying all military operations should stop.

But we are sending a message [by firing rockets]: "We will not surrender. We have to fight the Israelis and we will win this battle."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200918155333111890.html

Okay, please just kill them already. All of Hamas. No more nonsense.

Aren't people sick of this, yet?

Seriously. Remember that episode of Firefly where the guy keeps being belligerent, and Mal kicks him into the engine intake? That's what has to happen to Hamas.

Then you ask Fatah, after they see that, if they've got any issues, and see if they behave any better.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 04:01:48 PM by Manedwolf »

agricola

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 04:15:43 PM »
First Hamas, then Fatah, then finish off those pesky UNRWA types who have been unsportingly supplying and sheltering the enemy!

 :rolleyes:
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 05:33:19 PM »
Okay, please just kill them already. All of Hamas. No more nonsense


how?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 06:18:13 PM »
First Hamas, then Fatah, then finish off those pesky UNRWA types who have been unsportingly supplying and sheltering the enemy!

 :rolleyes:

Can we start with the UNRWA folks first? 

Hamas is unapologetic in its evilness and get a certain level of respect from me for their unreconstructed hate and vitriol.  I mean, most evil scum tries some pathetic cover for their power grabs.  Hamas is right out there with its hatred and murderous goals. 

UNRWA, OTOH, wraps themselves in the mantle of compassion and such, while enabling evil.  Oh, I'd spare the worker-bees, but all the UNRWA management could use some lead therapy. 
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

agricola

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 07:01:05 PM »
Can we start with the UNRWA folks first? 

Hamas is unapologetic in its evilness and get a certain level of respect from me for their unreconstructed hate and vitriol.  I mean, most evil scum tries some pathetic cover for their power grabs.  Hamas is right out there with its hatred and murderous goals. 

UNRWA, OTOH, wraps themselves in the mantle of compassion and such, while enabling evil.  Oh, I'd spare the worker-bees, but all the UNRWA management could use some lead therapy. 

Is this some kind of joke? 
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"Make peace, you fools"

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 07:35:34 PM »
Is this some kind of joke? 

No, I don't think he's joking.

I, on the other hand, think the UN should just be abolished peacefully.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Lennyjoe

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 07:50:41 PM »
Didn't some rockets come over from the Lebanese side too? 

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 07:52:03 PM »
Didn't some rockets come over from the Lebanese side too? 

Four, yes
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Lennyjoe

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 07:56:13 PM »
Hamas?  I'd assume that they are trying to expand the war by making it look like Lebanon is getting involved.

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 08:01:48 PM »
Hamas?  I'd assume that they are trying to expand the war by making it look like Lebanon is getting involved.

They say it's some local splinter group. Both Hezbullah and Hamas say it wasn't them, and the Army seems to confirm this.
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Lennyjoe

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2009, 08:11:19 PM »
Ah, got it.  Stay safe over there.

Standing Wolf

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2009, 08:36:53 PM »
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I, on the other hand, think the UN should just be abolished peacefully.

I certainly won't object, though I believe relocating it to Zimbabwe might not be a bad idea.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

roo_ster

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2009, 10:49:22 PM »
Is this some kind of joke? 

Well, in my heart of hearts I'm a softie and would be more than happy with MicroBalrog's solution, with Standing Wolf's solution an option if they squawk too much.  IOW, ending the vile institution and its activities.  But, justice for the UNRWA poo-bahs would come in the form of hot lead.  I guess I am too much a squish to see justice done.  It is a character flaw.

UN and its welfare pimp UNRWA have done more damage to the Palis with "compassion" than the most anti-arab Israelis have ever done with their military apparatus. They disgust me beyond words.

Regards,

roo_ster

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----G.K. Chesterton

roo_ster

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2009, 11:22:56 PM »
Well I'll be dipped in apple butter:






http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/07/gaza-hamas-unrwa-oped-cx_cr_0108rosett.html


Freedom's Edge
Gaza Bedfellows UNRWA And Hamas
Claudia Rosett, 01.08.09, 12:00 AM ET

Once upon a time, terrorists had to hide from the forces of the free world and filch their living on the sly. That's changing, thanks to long-running efforts by the United Nations, bankrolled most prominently by the U.S.

In the current violence of Gaza, we are seeing the fruition of one of the most bizarre creations of modern diplomacy: a UN-supported welfare enclave for terrorists.


Behind this lies a straightforward equation. Gaza, with its 1.5 million people, runs almost entirely on international handouts. The UN ranks it among the top per-capita aid recipients on the planet.

And following the Israeli withdrawal in 2005, the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hamas began consolidating power in Gaza--first via elections in 2006, then via a bloody battle in June 2007, in which Hamas drove out the rival Palestinian group Fatah and seized all power in the enclave.

Since then, Hamas has been running Gaza as a territory reduced to basically two industries: aid and terrorism.

Pivotal to this arrangement is one of the UN's oldest and most oddly configured agencies: the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA.

Set up in 1949 with a temporary, three-year mandate to provide aid and jobs for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA has survived for almost 60 years, expanding its scope, budget and influence by extending refugee status to descendants of its beneficiaries.

Normal refugee aid tends to focus on finding ways to resettle displaced people and integrate them back into normal, productive lives. UNRWA, by contrast, provides the main framework for ensuring that the official population of Palestinian refugees remains a swelling source of misery and mayhem--both for their neighbors and for the Palestinians themselves.

From an original refugee population listed by UNRWA as some 900,000 in 1950, UNRWA now provides for a Palestinian "refugee" clientele of more than 4.6 million.

They are spread throughout camps--which physically look more like squalid towns--in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza. Into this system flows an annual UNRWA budget now well above $400 million per year, doled out variously in the form of cash, goods, medical care, schooling, job-training programs and so forth.

To handle these operations, UNRWA employs more than 24,000 staffers. That's more than any other UN agency, including the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, or UNHCR, which with some 6,300 staffers--about one-quarter the manpower of UNRWA--is responsible for all other refugees worldwide, totaling more than 11 million.

At UNRWA, more than 99% of the staff are local Palestinians. They sit at the many local levers of the UNRWA distribution machinery, which under UNRWA policy takes on the coloration of and yields to the policies of host governments--as UNRWA officials explained to U.S. lawmakers who some years ago challenged the use of anti-Israeli textbooks in UNRWA schools.

In today's terrorist-run Gaza, such an approach carries exactly the kind of deadly implications now playing out--while UNRWA and other UN officials call for an end to the violence.

Originally headquartered in Beirut, UNRWA moved its main offices to Vienna after the Lebanese Civil War, then moved again in 1996 to its current headquarters in Gaza. There, it serves as a core fundraiser and rallying point for donations from around the globe, many from sovereign states.

While not all charity to Gaza flows through UNRWA, it is UNRWA that enjoys pride of place, with its UN stamp of legitimacy and direct, easy access to the UN's world stage.

Since late December, when Israel began its campaign to end the thousands of rocket and mortar attacks launched by Hamas from Gaza, UNRWA officials have given a parade of briefings via UN headquarters in New York.

Teleconferencing in, they have ignored what UNRWA Commissioner General Karen Koning Abuzayd has described as their "nonpolitical" mandate. With Abuzayd in the lead, they have detailed their outrage on behalf of the Palestinians, excoriated Israel and stepped further into the political arena to demand an immediate ceasefire--something these same UNRWA officials did not do when the attacks were one-way out of Gaza into Israel.

Given the structure and location of UNRWA, such bias comes as no big surprise. Headquartered inside a terrorist enclave, sharing with terrorist authorities such basic interests as keeping the local lights on and the water running, UNRWA officials have plenty of incentives to slam Israel as the culprit--not themselves, or their Hamas cohabiters.

And while blaming Israel, UNRWA officials also have plenty of incentive to present the worst possible picture. The greater the perceived distress, the better the prospects not only for immediate relief, but for future fundraising.

UNRWA's interests in Gaza are by now so entwined and, in many ways, so aligned with Hamas' interests that it is often hard to tell them apart.

And, as UNRWA officials have aired their views and demands from the UN stage, handouts for Gaza have been rolling in from all sides--some via UNRWA, some through other channels.

This goes way beyond Israel allowing hundreds of aid trucks into Gaza, even as the Israeli military is battling to shut down the rocket launchers and destroy the arms-smuggling tunnels and weapons caches of Hamas.

Support in cash and kind, in dollars and tons, has been pledged by donors ranging from Iran to Japan to the European Union to the Arab Gulf States to the U.S. (already the top donor to UNRWA, with $148 million in contributions last year, and now promising an immediate $5 million in response to UNRWA's latest flash appeal for Gaza, plus another $80 million for the agency to spread around in places including Gaza).

Plane-loads of relief, both in goods and services, have been announced by donors ranging from Russia to Libya to Sudan.

When this largesse eventually arrives in Gaza, how exactly will it be spent, distributed and supervised? UNRWA and the surrounding constellations of aid operations in Gaza are by and large areas of deep murk.

In a 2006 U.S. congressional briefing, Abuzayd said it was too difficult for UNRWA to run checks against terrorist watch lists because "Arab last names sound so familiar."

This was a strange comment coming from Abuzayd, a woman who is married to a Sudanese professor, holds a degree in Islamic studies and has worked for UNRWA in Gaza since 2000, first as deputy commissioner of UNRWA and since 2005 as the top boss.

These days, UNRWA officially runs periodic reviews that are supposed to winnow out terror connections. But donors must by and large rely on UNRWA's word that this is a serious process.

The history of terror out of Gaza in recent years suggests that, at best, a lot falls between the cracks. In response to e-mailed queries this week, a UNRWA spokesman said the agency now runs periodic name checks for relief recipients against a UN watch list named for counter-terrorism resolution number 1267 and has found no matches.

That's no big surprise; the 1267 watch list is for major players among al-Qaeda and the Taliban, not Iranian-backed Hamas.

For years, various U.S. lawmakers, including the late Congressman Tom Lantos, have tried introducing bills asking for genuine transparency and accountability from UNRWA--which has never been subject to a genuinely independent external audit.

Such efforts have gained no traction, opposed by a UN that even under the most benign circumstances is hostile to opening its books, plus a U.S. State Department that prefers to close its eyes and shovel millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars into terrorist-controlled infrastructure.

This past September, Democratic Rep. Steve Rothman, with a bipartisan group of five co-sponsors, submitted a concurrent resolution noting that "UNRWA has employed staffers affiliated with terrorism."

The resolution cited specific examples of UNRWA ambulance and schools having been used to abet terrorism and mentioned a number of figures, including Awad al-Qiq, headmaster of an UNRWA school in Gaza, "who also led Islamic Jihad's engineering unit that built bombs and Qassam rockets."

However humane the intent of UNRWA officials, they have become de facto enablers of Hamas' terrorist fiefdom in Gaza.

In pushing for an ever-bigger dole and in using the UN stage as a megaphone to help elicit sympathy, drum up funds, denounce Israel and drape in UN baby blue the interests and demands of the Iranian-backed terrorists of Hamas, they do a terrible disservice not only to the cause of world peace, but to the prospects of the Palestinians themselves for forsaking terror and building better lives.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Golden Hound

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2009, 01:28:30 AM »
The Arabs never had any interest in "peace" or a "cease fire." Their objective is to wipe Israel clean off the map. They do not want Israel to exist at all and they do not recognize its right to exist. They have consistently displayed this sentiment over and over again but nobody seems to get the message, including Israel.

I don't know why everyone is always scrambling all over themselves to make Israel the bad guy here. It's always baffled me. What is it about these Arabs that is so wonderful that people want to root for them instead of a civilized modern nation with a high standard of living and a democratic government?

agricola

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2009, 06:54:17 AM »
The Arabs never had any interest in "peace" or a "cease fire." Their objective is to wipe Israel clean off the map. They do not want Israel to exist at all and they do not recognize its right to exist. They have consistently displayed this sentiment over and over again but nobody seems to get the message, including Israel.

I don't know why everyone is always scrambling all over themselves to make Israel the bad guy here. It's always baffled me. What is it about these Arabs that is so wonderful that people want to root for them instead of a civilized modern nation with a high standard of living and a democratic government?

Mainly its the Israelis blowing up schools and stuff.  I know such things can happen in war, but blowing up three or four in the same day and then lying about why you did so can seem careless.  Stuff like that, and shooting up a UN food convoy that Israel requested, that is covered with UN flags and other insignia and which is a regular visitor to the Erez crossing tends to piss people off.

edit:  also the IDF shelling a house that the IDF had evacuated people to will probably lead to negative feelings as well:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5480440.ece
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 07:08:45 AM by agricola »
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MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 08:00:19 AM »
Quote
. They do not want Israel to exist at all and they do not recognize its right to exist.

...who is 'they'?

Have you ever met a member of these organizations in real life? Have you read their platforms in the original language? Whence this arcane knowledge?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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De Selby

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2009, 08:51:04 AM »
The rockets from Lebanon are a sad commentary on the state and its forces: basically, the only people they will attack are people too weak to offer any real resistance.  They will not even dream of attacking lebanon like they did in 2006, because the Lebanese might actually defeat the army again. But the gaza strip is fair game because its people are mostly incapable of inflicting real damage on Israel.

It's gotten to the point where an attack by Israeli forces is proof of relative harmlessness.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2009, 08:52:49 AM »
Israel attacked Lebanon two days ago.
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HankB

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2009, 09:03:40 AM »
Mainly its the Israelis blowing up schools and stuff. 
Well, if Hamas didn't set their HQ's, weapons depots, or rocket launching sites near - or actually in - stuff like this, they wouldn't get blown up.

Duh.

Why should the Israelis let the enemy use their own people as human shields? Yes, it's horrible when children - even enemy children - are casualties, but let's face it, HAMAS wouldn't have control of Gaza if the majority of the people there weren't OK with it.

Color me "unsympathetic" to the problems of a terrorist state.
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agricola

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 09:04:14 AM »
Israel attacked Lebanon two days ago.

They did.  

TBH I am somewhat amazed there havent been more attacks, though one imagines the likes of Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and even Hamas recognize that the Israelis are doing more damage to the Israeli cause than the Palestinians could ever hope to. I would not be at all surprised to find that, when the ceasefire does come, Hamas has achieved more of its aims than Israel.
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agricola

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 09:07:35 AM »
Well, if Hamas didn't set their HQ's, weapons depots, or rocket launching sites near - or actually in - stuff like this, they wouldn't get blown up.

Duh.

None of the three schools were used for any of those things - the Israelis initially claimed they were, but then had to retract it when it became obvious that they were not.

Quote from: HankB
Why should the Israelis let the enemy use their own people as human shields? Yes, it's horrible when children - even enemy children - are casualties, but let's face it, HAMAS wouldn't have control of Gaza if the majority of the people there weren't OK with it.

Color me "unsympathetic" to the problems of a terrorist state.

Given that the Israelis have been using Palestinians as human shields as well - 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7818122.stm
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MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 09:09:03 AM »
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Yes, it's horrible when children - even enemy children - are casualties, but let's face it, HAMAS wouldn't have control of Gaza if the majority of the people there weren't OK with it.

43% of the Palestinians voted for them.  Not 51%.

TBF I don't buy the story that the Army is completely uncaring about civilian losses, either.
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De Selby

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2009, 09:10:01 AM »
Israel attacked Lebanon two days ago.


They sent a few mortars-definitely not near what they are doing in Gaza, which is supposedly motivated by the desire to stop rocket fire.


"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is what Hamas means by "a cease fire"
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2009, 09:17:41 AM »

They sent a few mortars-definitely not near what they are doing in Gaza, which is supposedly motivated by the desire to stop rocket fire.




They shelled the launch point with 155mm arty. Besides, there's a difference between 'four rockets were fired' and 'firing rockets daily for several years'.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner