Jesus Rifles

[RevDisk]

If I were buying an ACOG and had a choice between religious inscribed vs non inscribed version I would choose the non due to my personal beliefs.  This is a small thing to get worked up over, though I think it is in poor taste for a military/gov contract item.  

+1

41magsnub pretty much hit everything I wanted to say.  I'm sure Jews, atheists, pagans, etc will mostly shrug and ignore it.  If they really get worked up, I'm quite sure you can obtain a non-inscribed version or obliterate it yourself if you so wish.  

Still, the contract officer in charge of acquisitions should be terminated for lack of attention to detail.  I'd be ten times as pissed at him than Trijicon if I wanted to get worked up about the matter.  Trijicon made the product, but it was the DoD that bought it.  If DoD included "No religious citations" in the contract, and Trijicon did it anyways, hell yea, I'd be worked up.  That's a contractor playing games with vital equipment for deployed soldiers and violating their contract.  If the DoD (or rather the contract guy) didn't make the specification...   Well, it's their own damn fault.   Next time they'll read the fine print a bit better.

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/weinstein2.html

here is what he thinks about himself

Hrm...  USAF desk jockey...   Reagan Administration, as legal counsel in the White House (obvious undercover liberal)...     WOAH!   Hold the phone!   He was bestowed the rank of "The Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan" by the fundies?   I didn't know the fundies could brevet ya in the Godless Armies of Satan.   Anyone here tied in tight with the christian fundies?   What do I gotta do to get rank in the Godless Armies of Satan?  Dress goth, oppose tax money to faith based initiatives, sacrifice virgins to the Dark Lord, etc?

[freakazoid]

Is it on only military versions or is it on all of there stuff?

[dogmush]

I laughed.  

I don't really have a problem with it, that's how Trijicon makes the sights, and DOD just ordered a bunch of what they were already making.  It's not like they're custom made sights for the military, I'm pretty sure they were an OTS purchase.  I suppose we could have asked for a special run, but I HAD an ACOG overseas and missed this little gem.  I kinda wonder where they put it.

Also:

commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm of Jesus Christ."

This I flat don't believe.  I've had some dumb CO's, but not that dumb. Someone just made that up.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.

[RevDisk]

Also:
This I flat don't believe.  I've had some dumb CO's, but not that dumb. Someone just made that up.

Colonel Steele.

If you don't believe me, ask anyone in the 101st these days.

[AZRedhawk44]

Colonel Steele.

If you don't believe me, ask anyone in the 101st these days.

Of the Mogadishu raid?  Blackhawk Down?

[Gewehr98]

Something doesn't smell right about this guy.

He graduates the USAF Academy as a butterbar in 1977.  He says he spent three years as legal counsel in the West Wing of the Reagan Administration (Reagan's tenure was 1981-1989). That means he would've been at best a captain in 1981, and probably a major by 1989.  Legal counsel in the West Wing as a company grade or junior field grade officer?  Really?  

Methinks there's some digging around in military records to be done.  A FOIA request could straighten things out.

It says "former officer".  That means he resigned his commission.  Interesting.

Now, if there's blatant proselytizing in ACOGs, that's one thing...

[taurusowner]

THis just makes me want an ACOG a little more actually.

[RoadKingLarry]

I remember hearing about this at least a few years ago.
Somebody jut rying to make a name or $$ for themselves.

[lee n. field]

Just saw that on Freerepublic.

Coolness.

I wonder if there's anything microstamped on my Trijicon night sight set.

n October 2005, Weinstein sued the United States Air Force for permitting proselytization by evangelical Christian officers. U.S. District Judge James A. Parker, who presided over Weinstein v. U.S. Air Force, dismissed the case, stating, "No Plaintiff claims to have personally experienced any of the things described under “Factual Allegations"... while at the Academy or after leaving the Academy."

I remember hearing about that case at the time, and thinking "bullshit".  I've been in conservative and evanglical circles for a long, long time, and I've never seen or heard anything like what he described, vis-a-vis antisemitic behaviour.

[Antibubba]

I'm surprised they're only catching on now--why do they think you aim for the crosshairs?

[MillCreek]

He graduates the USAF Academy as a butterbar in 1977.  He says he spent three years as legal counsel in the West Wing of the Reagan Administration (Reagan's tenure was 1981-1989). That means he would've been at best a captain in 1981, and probably a major by 1989.  Legal counsel in the West Wing as a company grade or junior field grade officer?  Really?  

I wonder if he was in the White House as a civilian attorney and was also in the AF Reserve, or if he was active duty as a JAG in the White House.  It would not surprise me at all if the White House routinely had military lawyers on staff to advise them on military legal matters, the laws of war and the like. 

[Perd Hapley]

  I've been in conservative and evanglical circles for a long, long time, and I've never seen or heard anything like what he described, vis-a-vis antisemitic behaviour.

I'm sure there are anti-Semites somewhere in the evangelical club, if you look around for them.  Of course, they're vastly out-numbered by those who obsess over all things Jewish.  Like a certain Gentile in my church who wears a tallit. 

[sanglant]

WOAH!   Hold the phone!   He was bestowed the rank of "The Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan" by the fundies?   I didn't know the fundies could brevet ya in the Godless Armies of Satan.   Anyone here tied in tight with the christian fundies?   What do I gotta do to get rank in the Godless Armies of Satan?  Dress goth, oppose tax money to faith based initiatives, sacrifice virgins to the Dark Lord, etc?

it's really easy, all you have to do is. deny Jesus Christ in front of Pat Robertson, and wright the 700 club a check for six hundred and sixty six dollars and sixty six cents.






hey there's no real laughing smilie, i feel cheated and violated. this will have to do.  

[roo_ster]

I'm surprised they're only catching on now--why do they think you aim for the crosshairs?

Thread win!

As for the inscriptions, I feel like a goober for never noticing.  The references are all, ah, "optically oriented" and are not blatant, given that so many of us that used them never noticed them.

If it had been the other way around, say, some pagan reference to illumination & such, I would not have a problem.  Plenty of pagan deities have been used for marketing purposes.

The former USAF officer needs some fiber in his diet and also could use a copy of the COTUS to read, as he has a few misunderstandingins.

[HankB]

Waiting on the other shoe to drop. A big expose that ATK/Federal uses bacon to lubricate the 5.56 presses...

We can only hope. 

[Stand_watie]

+1

41magsnub pretty much hit everything I wanted to say.  I'm sure Jews, atheists, pagans, etc will mostly shrug and ignore it.  If they really get worked up, I'm quite sure you can obtain a non-inscribed version or obliterate it yourself if you so wish.  

Still, the contract officer in charge of acquisitions should be terminated for lack of attention to detail.  I'd be ten times as pissed at him than Trijicon if I wanted to get worked up about the matter.  Trijicon made the product, but it was the DoD that bought it.  If DoD included "No religious citations" in the contract, and Trijicon did it anyways, hell yea, I'd be worked up.  That's a contractor playing games with vital equipment for deployed soldiers and violating their contract.  If the DoD (or rather the contract guy) didn't make the specification...   Well, it's their own damn fault.   Next time they'll read the fine print a bit better.



Hrm...  USAF desk jockey...   Reagan Administration, as legal counsel in the White House (obvious undercover liberal)...     WOAH!   Hold the phone!   He was bestowed the rank of "The Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan" by the fundies?   I didn't know the fundies could brevet ya in the Godless Armies of Satan.   Anyone here tied in tight with the christian fundies?   What do I gotta do to get rank in the Godless Armies of Satan?  Dress goth, oppose tax money to faith based initiatives, sacrifice virgins to the Dark Lord, etc?

Yeah, I guess I'm pretty much a christian fundy. I think your pagan synopsis about summarizes my thinking on the issue. If you really want to get rank with us as one of Satan's Generals call yourself a fundy loudly and publically and then cheat on your wife or molest a kid.

[coppertales]

If someone doesn't like it on your rifle, files are cheap or buy another brand.

I would like to see the passage in the Constitution this violates......chris3

[makattak]

If someone doesn't like it on your rifle, files are cheap or buy another brand.

I would like to see the passage in the Constitution this violates......chris3

Well, I'm pretty sure it makes people uncomfortable, and I'm fairly certain the first amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or do anything that makes individuals uncomfortable about religion; or abridging the freedom of speech, unless it makes people uncomfortable, or of the press, unless for political purposes, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, unless they are unhappy with the government, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, so long as those grievances are against other citizens and not the government.

[Hawkmoon]

Ever since seeing a Richard Widmark movie about a whale trapped in an iced-in lagoon, a great many years ago, I have always thought "Fundy" (or "Fundie") referred to someone from New Foundland.

:shrug:

[Balog]

I wish I'd known about this earlier, I'd have noted what verse my ACOG had on it.

My understanding is the .mil just bought the things off the shelf. All of their stuff is inscribed like this. Given that our money has religious referrences on it, I fail to see the outrage.

What does outrage me is people wanting to deprive grunts of the best equipment available cause it hurts their widdle feelings. Bite me you whiny little deleted.

Edited for content.  Jeebus, Balog, how often do we have to play this game?

Huh? I wasn't aware that was not considered acceptable. I'll stop using it. Has that been mentioned to me before and I've just forgotten? I admit my memory isn't that sharp.

I know you're a former Marine and all, and I'm sure your vocabulary is impressive, but between the patented Balog F-Bombs and other colorful adjectives, I can hardly wait for yet another PM pointing out to the APS staff why we were remiss in running a clean all-ages forum. We don't catch them all, but we try...

[GigaBuist]

I have always thought "Fundy" (or "Fundie") referred to someone from New Foundland.

They're called Newfies.

[lee n. field]

I'm sure there are anti-Semites somewhere in the evangelical club, if you look around for them.  Of course, they're vastly out-numbered by those who obsess over all things Jewish.  Like a certain Gentile in my church who wears a tallit.  

Well, folks that hold to my particular eschatological position (covenantal amillennial) get called that on a regular basis by the Tim LaHaye/Hal Lindsay/left behind types, which is an absurdity they can't be reasoned out of.

My recollection is that this guy was claiming to have been taunted as a "Christ killer", which is flat out beyond anything I've ever seen or heard.

hey're vastly out-numbered by those who obsess over all things Jewish.

Don't even get me started on those guys. 

[sanglant]

you do realize Jesus himself was Jewish? i mean no Jews = no Christians now then excuse me, while i burn some frankincense and myrrh

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What does outrage me is people wanting to deprive grunts of the best equipment available cause it hurts their widdle feelings. Bite me you whiny little [deleted]


i quite often see things differently than you  but i'll buy you a beer or 2 over that one. a couple grand kids still in uniform does color my feelings a might