Author Topic: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site  (Read 102649 times)

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #250 on: August 21, 2010, 02:29:20 AM »
The problem is - again - that I am not advocating appeasement of the Radical Muslims, surrender to the Radical Muslims, or anything like it.
Oh I get that, no worries on that part. I just wished to illustrate that you can't really compare one to the other and use that as a yard stick for threat credibility is all.


Since I promised earlier that I would get to these once I was at work...
2. To equate the Uyghur-Chinese conflict [does he realize the PRC are engaged in a genocide of the Uyghurs? That the PRC are monsters who steal the kidneys of political dissidents for re-sale?] with the struggle of the Islamic fascists with the West is [another] moral failure of Whittle's.

3. Whittle equates ALL Chechen fighters with Radical Islam. General Dudaev would have probably disagreed.

The first one, honestly, I'm not gonna touch with a ten foot pole. I just don't know enough about that situation to form what I would consider an educated and credible opinion as an intel weenie. (Damn, how often do you hear someone admit to ignorance of a subject on the intertoobs?  :lol:)


The second one however... Well General Dudeyev may have disagreed... during the First Chechen War. However he has been dead for the past 14 years and subsequently has had zero involvement in the Second and ongoing Chechen War which has notably included foreign Islamist Wahhabism element as a fourth and distinct involved belligerant, with it's own political and social end goals, in addition to the Russian Federation, Republic of Ichkeria and a loose group of local militants lead by Umarov and Yevloyev.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #251 on: August 21, 2010, 08:51:12 AM »
Nobody's putting roadblocks up in the church's rebuilding.

Question is wether or not they'll get public money to do so or not, at least that's my understanding.

They had a deal with the port authority that they couldn't work out terms with.
Your understanding is incorrect.  The Greek Orthodox church has never been free to rebuild, not without first having to satisfy crazy preconditions like allowing a bomb screening center underground below the church.

longeyes

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #252 on: August 21, 2010, 11:00:05 AM »
Quote
The Nazi Wehrmacht was designed to fight a combination attrition/maneuver warfare, where as any likely assembly of Islam-oriented fighting groups are largely oriented to guerrilla or asymmetrical warfare, except, and this is what differentiates them from others practitioners of asymmetrical warfare, such as Vietnam or Finland, is that these groups act independent of national alliance or official sponsorship limiting retributive counter attacks aimed at depriving them of war material, sanctuary or recruitment base.

Militant Islamist factions operate without "official sponsorship?"  I guess the operative word here is official because clearly Al-Qaeda et alia require support from terrorist-inclined states, something we seem to have trouble recognizing for reasons one has to wonder about.  And no matter how "asymmetric" these groups are in their strategies once they obtain WMDs, which I believe they will, there will be some fearful symmetries at work indeed.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #253 on: August 21, 2010, 01:56:15 PM »
Your understanding is incorrect.  The Greek Orthodox church has never been free to rebuild, not without first having to satisfy crazy preconditions like allowing a bomb screening center underground below the church.

fail  the bomb screening center was under their new improved tax payer subsidized 7 times bigger extravaganza  they are now free to build on original site  still trying for tax dollars


The archdiocese and Port Authority offer sharply conflicting accounts of where things went wrong. The Port Authority has previously claimed the church was making additional demands – like wanting the $20 million up front and wanting to review plans for the surrounding area. They say the church can still proceed on its own if it wishes.

"The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building," a spokesperson with the Port Authority told Fox New
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #254 on: August 21, 2010, 03:04:03 PM »
Yeah, no.  The church isn't free now, and never has been free, to rebuild on their property as they wish.  They've been permitted to rebuild subject to the PA's demands for the property.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 03:40:50 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #255 on: August 21, 2010, 04:04:50 PM »
like everyone else that builds there?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #256 on: August 21, 2010, 04:47:54 PM »
The PA doesn't put bomb centers under everyone's property, no.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #257 on: August 21, 2010, 04:58:24 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #258 on: August 21, 2010, 10:10:18 PM »
I suggest that they move the bomb screening center to under the mosque.  =D
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makattak

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #259 on: August 21, 2010, 10:50:18 PM »
I suggest that they move the bomb screening center to under the mosque.  =D

I wholeheartedly endorse this solution.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #260 on: August 22, 2010, 05:46:06 AM »
mosque is too far away  outa sight of the center
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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seeker_two

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #261 on: August 22, 2010, 08:14:00 AM »
I suggest that they move the bomb screening testing center to under the mosque.  =D

FIFY....  >:D
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #262 on: August 22, 2010, 08:28:40 PM »
I suggest that they move the bomb screening center to under the mosque.  =D
Heh!

It could never happen, though.  It would be deemed too insensitive.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #263 on: August 22, 2010, 08:31:44 PM »
it would also be too far away from the wtc site.  big bocks in nyc  you're not in kansas anymore
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #264 on: August 22, 2010, 09:55:56 PM »
it would also be too far away from the wtc site.  big bocks in nyc  you're not in kansas anymore

Not THAT big.

The building was hit by plane debris on 9-11.  Landing gear, IIRC.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #265 on: August 22, 2010, 10:04:24 PM »
how far does landing gear go from that high up at 300 plus mph?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #266 on: August 23, 2010, 10:04:22 AM »
After punching through a building...?

Probably not that far.

EDIT:
According to wiki, the proposed mosque is 600 feet from GZ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 10:51:47 AM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I


roo_ster

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #269 on: August 23, 2010, 01:54:38 PM »
it would also be too far away from the wtc site.  big bocks in nyc  you're not in kansas anymore

Ok, after consulting google maps, I have determined that NYC city blocks around WTC are not all that big.

"Smallish" is closer to reality.  Diminutive.  Petite, even.

Quantitatively, a block in that part of Manhattan means ~200 feet.

Take a gander for yourself:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=New+York,+NY&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.576045,102.832031&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=New+York&ll=40.71285,-74.010467&spn=0.003041,0.006276&z=18

And as a comparison, here is some downtown Witchita, Kansas:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=downtown&mrt=all&sll=37.684682,-97.335756&sspn=0.003176,0.006276&ie=UTF8&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.21&hq=downtown&hnear=&ll=37.685327,-97.336614&spn=0.003175,0.006276&z=18

Same scale map as the NYC map. 

If anything, the downtown Witchita blocks look larger than those in NYC.  Maybe 225'-250'.

Well, CSD was right, the GZM is not in Kansas.

If it were, it would be farther away from Ground Zero(1).






(1) Assuming Ground Zero itself were also in downtown Witchita.  If the mosque in question were to actually build in downtown Witchita, I doubt there would be much furor over its proximity to WTC Ground Zero.  Google says it is a 1300mi trip from Witchita, Kansas; to NYC, NY.

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roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #270 on: August 23, 2010, 04:54:40 PM »
some pics of what will be visible from the mosque.  or more importantly what won't be visible

http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-view-from-park51-more-popularly-known-as-the-ground-zero-mosque-slideshow/?pid=71#image
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Jamisjockey

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #272 on: August 25, 2010, 10:34:53 AM »
I heard some explanations that have made it much more understandable.

Islam is the new victims, and we in the West are the Oppressors.  Obama sees this as his solem duty to save them from our oppression and imperialisim.  Fits right into his family view and progressivisim.
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longeyes

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #273 on: August 25, 2010, 11:11:41 AM »
I believe Newsweek's next cover is "We Are All Muslims Now."
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roo_ster

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #274 on: August 25, 2010, 01:38:16 PM »
I believe Newsweek's next cover is "We Are All Muslims Now."

All 5 of their remaining readers will nod in agreement.
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roo_ster

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