Ohio execution takes 25 minutes

[Firethorn]

Without singling out any specific ideology since several of them used it, I suggest an injection directly into the heart of any of a number of commonly available chemicals.  To be crude - but not cruel - about it, use something you can get as easily as by going to the local gas station.

A state execution is not a medical procedure.  Medical personnel are not needed until it is time to confirm the condemned is well and truely dead.

stay safe.

You expect a non-medical person to be able to hit the heart to inject it on the first try?  For common chemicals from the 'local gas station' to kill quickly and relatively painlessly?

Nitrogen in sufficient quantities can be obtained from any welding shop.  Said welding shop should have no problems supplying what's necessary for a reasonably air-tight cell.  Performing the execution would be as simple as shuting the exterior air draw and pulling the air from nitrogen tanks instead.  Once you flush out the O2 you can even just start recycling the air.  If you want to get really fancy you just need to push enough N2 to keep CO2 under certain levels(.7% if I remember right).

A step up from that would be to simply recirculate the air while having a CO2 scrubber.

[Azrael256]

I can inject the heart on the first try if you'll put one of those little orange stickers over it. 

Somebody please fill me in on why we're so desperate to be super humane here?  I've got a .38 that's quicker than this scumbag deserved.  My old cat got a quick lethal injection because it was the best that could be done for him.  This kind of person doesn't rate that kind of death.

[Firethorn]

Somebody please fill me in on why we're so desperate to be super humane here?  I've got a .38 that's quicker than this scumbag deserved.  My old cat got a quick lethal injection because it was the best that could be done for him.  This kind of person doesn't rate that kind of death.

I view it as when you're executing somebody you're no longer punishing them.  You're putting them down like a mad dog because it's for the best, for everyone.

As such, one shouldn't be trying to mess with 'he doesn't deserve a clean/painless death'.  Especially when it upsets the victims and others even more.

As such, why don't we use the same drugs we use to put down animals?  Simple, cheap, easy.  Why insist on protocols that risk our ability to obtain necessary drugs for our own medical use?  Why execute in a way that allows people to target the execution as 'cruel'? 

My criteria:
1.  Safe for others
2.  Not upsetting for viewers
3.  Requires no special skills
4.  Readily obtainable, not too expensive.
5.  Doesn't mess up the body

[MechAg94]

My vote is for Nitrogen asphixiation or the massive dose of heroin.  

On swabbing with alcohol - I believe one of the side effects of the alcohol is that it actually makes SEEING the veins easier.

I have always liked the nitrogen idea.  You could give the guy a breathing mask and hop him up on Nitrous oxide first if you wanted.  He would pass out and be dead from lack of O2 before anyone even realized it.  

Course, I keep thinking there seems to be some resistance to using gas of any kind.

[BryanP]

I'd never really thought about it, but sedation followed by nitrogen inhalation would seem to be both effective and humane.  I wonder why nobody's gone for it yet?

[Boomhauer]

I can inject the heart on the first try if you'll put one of those little orange stickers over it. 

Somebody please fill me in on why we're so desperate to be super humane here?  I've got a .38 that's quicker than this scumbag deserved.  My old cat got a quick lethal injection because it was the best that could be done for him.  This kind of person doesn't rate that kind of death.

I'm of the "pour encourager les autres" model. Choot 'em in the head, bill family for cartridge, head on stake. Garanf**kingteed to influence future criminals.

You're putting them down like a mad dog

I use a .22 for that. Why are we getting all elaborate again?

[Ben]

I view it as when you're executing somebody you're no longer punishing them.  You're putting them down like a mad dog because it's for the best, for everyone.

As such, one shouldn't be trying to mess with 'he doesn't deserve a clean/painless death'.  Especially when it upsets the victims and others even more.

As such, why don't we use the same drugs we use to put down animals?  Simple, cheap, easy.  Why insist on protocols that risk our ability to obtain necessary drugs for our own medical use?  Why execute in a way that allows people to target the execution as 'cruel'?  

My criteria:
1.  Safe for others
2.  Not upsetting for viewers
3.  Requires no special skills
4.  Readily obtainable, not too expensive.
5.  Doesn't mess up the body

All that up there.

It's only natural to think about inflicting the same pain on a murderer as they inflicted on others, especially for heinous crimes. In the end though, we have to recognize that we are better than the murderers. Giving them a quick death is the pragmatic and efficient thing to do for "those that need killin' ".

I also agree with those that have said death penalty only in cases with 100% irrefutable evidence, to include witnesses, DNA, a confession, etc. I used to be quite a bit more liberal with the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" response, but all the cases in the last ten or so years where DNA has proven innocence has changed my mind on that.  

Though I do have to add that if I were an innocent man wrongly accused and sentenced to life in prison with no parole, I might be of a mind that death would be a more humane end.

[KD5NRH]

I seriously don't understand why we try and be fancy about it. Drug combos are prone to issues, gas is bad juju, ol' sparky had it's share or botched executions. Bullet to the back of the head seems to be about as quick, painless, and fool proof as possible. Strap um down, line everything up for instant results, remote button to fire it with a couple dummy buttons if you want to do the whole "don't know which button did it" thing, sedate if you really feel the need, and be done with it. Quick, should be as painless as you're going to get, cheap, and preserves the rest of the body for science and organs if that's a viable option.

Heck, 12ga 00 buck loads are cheap too, compared to all the fancy crap.  Muzzle contact at the base of the skull is a pretty much guaranteed instant stop for everything.  Yeah, it's messy, but I don't recall any Constitutional right to an open casket, and the room can be powerwashed.

[charby]

Heck, 12ga 00 buck loads are cheap too, compared to all the fancy crap.  Muzzle contact at the base of the skull is a pretty much guaranteed instant stop for everything.  Yeah, it's messy, but I don't recall any Constitutional right to an open casket, and the room can be powerwashed.

<sarcasm>Let's just stick their head into a neck chute and hit them with a bolt gun.</sarcasm>

[Tallpine]

As such, why don't we use the same drugs we use to put down animals?  Simple, cheap, easy

I dunno about humans, but putting down a horse is nothing like putting down a dog or cat.  The drugs are expensive and often fail, and then pollute the environment.  A bullet through the brain is actually more humane.

Though I do have to add that if I were an innocent man wrongly accused and sentenced to life in prison with no parole, I might be of a mind that death would be a more humane end.

I've thought the same thing.  Ironically it is probably the innocent that would rather just die and the guilty that might actually enjoy prison.

[Nick1911]

Ever since I started dealing with compressed N2 for HVAC, becoming aware of it's hazards; I think it's a great solution.  I think I even wrote about it here a few years ago.

Cheap, painless, non-traumatic, widely available.  Just start feeling loopy, fuzz out, and dead in a few minutes.

The trick is to keep CO2 levels down, as rising blood levels trigger the "can't breathe" response in the body.

[Tallpine]

Ever since I started dealing with compressed N2 for HVAC, becoming aware of it's hazards; I think it's a great solution.  I think I even wrote about it here a few years ago.

Cheap, painless, non-traumatic, widely available.  Just start feeling loopy, fuzz out, and dead in a few minutes.

The trick is to keep CO2 levels down, as rising blood levels trigger the "can't breathe" response in the body.

Is that a bug or a feature? 

[roo_ster]

I view it as when you're executing somebody you're no longer punishing them.  You're putting them down like a mad dog because it's for the best, for everyone.

I completely disagree. 

Yes, killing them is a benefit in that they will no longer be able to inflict damage on anyone else.  But killing them also ought to be punitive.  Every bit as punitive as stripping their liberty and incarcerating them(1).  The death penalty, instead of detaining them as meat, turns them into meat.  Last, I think we also need to play up the factor of vengeance.   

We need to make sure that all understand this.  "Today James Kilzalot was put to death by firing squad as punishment for murdering his wife and children.  We the People exacted vengeance on behalf of both his victims and those who cared about his victims."

If one believes such things as "social contracts," part of the contract is that folks will forgo blood vengeance and let the state take the pound of flesh.  If the state is no longer going to exact vengeance, it has lost the legitimacy to forbid others from doing so.




(1) I think we ought to have a corporal punishment alternative.  Maybe caning.  Something like one lash/week or one lash/month instead of incarceration.  LOTS of upside to this approach.

[Hawkmoon]

Done right hanging is about a quick, painless and clean as it gets.

Problem is, done wrong, it can take 5+ minutes to strangle the prisoner to death if the drop is too short.

While it won't matter to the condemmed, a drop too long will severely tear or sever completely the neck.  This makes a very gruesome and messy scene for the witnesses and clean up crew to deal with.

Why are there witnesses?

I can understand that there need to be some kind of legal witnesses on behalf of the government, to ensure that the execution was carried out, that the right person was executed, and that the person actually died. Allowing the family(ies) of the executee or the victims to watch doesn't seem right or smart.

[Firethorn]

<sarcasm>Let's just stick their head into a neck chute and hit them with a bolt gun.</sarcasm>

sarcasm aside, I think it's a better option in that case.  Do it to the BACK of the head and you still have a very little mess execution that can be open casket.

I dunno about humans, but putting down a horse is nothing like putting down a dog or cat.  The drugs are expensive and often fail, and then pollute the environment.  A bullet through the brain is actually more humane.

I understand the concern there, but I think we're closer, physically speaking, to dogs & cats than we are to horses.  Especially dogs.

Is that a bug or a feature? 

Cheap environmental evolution - CO2 levels too high will kill you quicker than not enough O2, so outside of some tunneling creatures we've evolved to detect CO2 with the side benefit that it NORMALLY also handles not enough oxygen.  It takes artificial means to lower O2 levels without raising CO2, at least in situations that humans and our ancestors were likely enough to encounter that the means to detect O2 directly would be useful enough to evolve for.

I completely disagree.

That's your right, though I still believe that no doing in a torturous way is a way to be 'better than them'.  Go ahead and advertise that you executed him for his crimes.  On the other hand, allowing HIS family to keep some dignity by treating him with respect up to and through the execution ALSO helps, in a primitive tribal way, of preventing said family from seeking retribution for the horrible death their member suffered, even if he 'deserved' it through his crimes.

I also think that corporal punishment would probably have a beneficial place in our justice system, so long as it's specifically applied, but remember that I specified avoiding causing pain once you've reached the level of executing them. Before that it can be a teaching tool.  After, well, he's going to be meat soon anyways.

Allowing the family(ies) of the executee or the victims to watch doesn't seem right or smart.

Agreed, I think it evolved out of the tradition of families being closer to 'clans', and therefore you'd have representatives from each clan to verify that it was done right, however 'right' was defined at the time.  The victim's family so they could bring back word that justice was properly met.  The condemned's family so they could retrieve the body after as well as providing 'support' in them 'dying well'.

[TommyGunn]

I also agree with those that have said death penalty only in cases with 100% irrefutable evidence, to include witnesses, DNA, a confession, etc. I used to be quite a bit more liberal with the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" response, but all the cases in the last ten or so years where DNA has proven innocence has changed my mind on that.  

Some would agree with that.

[brimic]

You expect a non-medical person to be able to hit the heart to inject it on the first try?  For common chemicals from the 'local gas station' to kill quickly and relatively painlessly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol

Injections of phenol were used as a means of individual execution by the Nazis during the Second World War.[26] It was originally used by the Nazis in 1939 as part of Action T4.[27] Although Zyklon-B pellets were used in the gas chambers to exterminate large groups of people, the Nazis learned that extermination of smaller groups was more economical via injection of each victim with phenol. Phenol injections were given to thousands of people, especially at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Approximately one gram is sufficient to cause death

Phenol is one of the few really nasty industrial chemicals that I don't much care to work with...

The hydromorphone used in the execution wouldn't have caused any pain. If the deceased were even conscious while he was dying, he would have been higher than a kite.

[BlueStarLizzard]

The whole "violent death is a deterant for would be criminals" is fairly well proven to be ineffective. The kind of folks who go down that road don't really pay much attention to the cause and effect of their decision making process.

As Tallpine said, a bullet in the head (as long as it's done right) is often a much more human way of putting critters down, especially horses.
 A horse's circalatory system is only truely functional when they are standing. A horse only lays down for any period of time for REM sleep, the rest of the time, they remain on their feet. If the circulatory system is comprimised, leathel injection becomes ineffective as the blood cannot pump the blood where it needs to go as fast as it needs to get there. As most cases involving the need to put down a horse involve a horse that has been down for quite some time, the bullet to the head works best.

However, humans are not horses. Our blood circulates just dandy when we're layed flat out. As humane as a bullet is (it's fast. Really fast) when done correctly, it's still very hard, emotionally, for who's watching.
As I said before, the family of the murderer and the family of the victim are often in attendance. Neither deserve any more emotional trama then they've already had. Humane leathel injection serves a purpose for the people who actually matter in this scenario.

[Bigjake]

Gallows in the city square.  Cheap, a deterrent, and it falls well with the confines of "Nothing cruel or unusual".

That,  and it naturally leads back to a John Wayne movie.

From Chisum-

(After being asked by his prisoners if he, Chisum, was going to shoot them)

“I thought about it. Then I thought about something Henry Tunstall once said. He watched a man walk to the gallows… saw him hang. He said it was ghastly. Well, I’ve seen men hang, and that’s the word – ghastly. You two are going to hang.”


One SHOULD fear being executed.  I don't believe that bunk about it not being a deterrent.   

[BlueStarLizzard]

Gallows in the city square.  Cheap, a deterrent, and it falls well with the confines of "Nothing cruel or unusual".

That,  and it naturally leads back to a John Wayne movie.

From Chisum-

(After being asked by his prisoners if he, Chisum, was going to shoot them)

“I thought about it. Then I thought about something Henry Tunstall once said. He watched a man walk to the gallows… saw him hang. He said it was ghastly. Well, I’ve seen men hang, and that’s the word – ghastly. You two are going to hang.”


  One SHOULD fear being executed.  I don't believe that bunk about it not being a deterrent. 

One SHOULD also be sickened at the thought of intentionally raping or brutilizing an innocent. What one SHOULD be and what one IS are two very diffrent things when we are discussion violent criminals.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The whole "violent death is a deterant for would be criminals" is fairly well proven to be ineffective. The kind of folks who go down that road don't really pay much attention to the cause and effect of their decision making process.


thats funny in so many ways and so many levels

[Bigjake]

One SHOULD also be sickened at the thought of intentionally raping or brutilizing an innocent. What one SHOULD be and what one IS are two very diffrent things when we are discussion violent criminals.

I doubt that violent criminals are all that afraid of dying the same way as a beloved pet.

[BobR]

I am not really sure public executions are a deterrent to anything other than getting caught. I witnessed more than one public beheading while in a country that professes to be one of our staunchest allies in the middle east. Even though there were plenty of people watching, there was always a next one. 

bob

[lee n. field]

I am not really sure public executions are a deterrent to anything other than getting caught. I witnessed more than one public beheading while in a country that professes to be one of our staunchest allies in the middle east. Even though there were plenty of people watching, there was always a next one. 

bob

A public entertainment, like you might have in merry olde England in centuries past?

[Lee]

Sedative, a trash bag, some duct tape.