Author Topic: This could get Interesting  (Read 54297 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #150 on: April 15, 2014, 08:09:28 AM »
it was called the smoke creek fire but i can't find any links-it was in the middle of nowhere, but only one ranch suffered damage - no reason I can fathom other than stupidity to disallow the cows walking around eating fuel.

this might help
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2008/1214/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RevDisk

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #151 on: April 15, 2014, 08:14:02 AM »
Mostly because, if I understand correctly, he and the other ranchers never had a problem with what they paid for grazing rights.  The problem began when the BLM arbitrarily (*cough* Desert Tortoise *cough*) raised the fees by several orders of magnitude, making them so economically unfeasible that they became, in effect, a de facto ban on grazing.  That is what he had a problem with.

The other ranchers bailed.  He hung around and told the BLM to stick it.  Fast forward to today.

Brad

That makes a bit more sense. That is a much more reasonable argument than Bundy put forth in the news articles, from both left and right sources. Could have just been the media sucking as usual, but it wasn't the argument he was banging on about in his quotes.
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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #152 on: April 15, 2014, 08:44:29 AM »
That makes a bit more sense. That is a much more reasonable argument than Bundy put forth in the news articles, from both left and right sources. Could have just been the media sucking as usual, but it wasn't the argument he was banging on about in his quotes.

Endangered Species Act of 1973 plays a significant role in how public lands are managed. The National Environmental Policy Act requires government agencies to integrate environmental values into their decision making processes by considering the environmental impacts of their proposed actions and reasonable alternatives to those actions. The Forest and Rangeland Renewable Resources Planning Act of 1974 requires BLM and USFS to create a management plan every 10 years.

Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 only allows for grazing permits not to be longer than 10 years.

These are the laws that why many agencies are constantly changing their management plans and why land usage isn't consistent from generation to generation. Also any management plan or decision is open to a public comment period normally 90 days in length, if someone has an issue then they can come and comment. With a little bit of Google Fu on can find plenty of examples where the public voice did change land use.

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RoadKingLarry

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #154 on: April 15, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »
https://www.google.com/#q=blm+kills+desert+tortoises



Looks like the euthanized turtles are at a conservation center, not ones out in the wild.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 09:39:40 AM by charby »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #155 on: April 15, 2014, 09:36:48 AM »
it wasn't the argument he was banging on about in his quotes.

Looks like the euthanized turtles at a conservation center, not ones out in the wild.


you noticed that too?

that stuff came from the same placer the apache pics came from   and the 2800 mraps
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #156 on: April 15, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »
it wasn't the argument he was banging on about in his quotes.

Looks like the euthanized turtles at a conservation center, not ones out in the wild.


you noticed that too?

that stuff came from the same placer the apache pics came from   and the 2800 mraps

The "pundits and bloggers" are grasping for straws with a lot of disinformation.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #157 on: April 15, 2014, 09:44:07 AM »
The "pundits and bloggers" are grasping for straws with a lot of disinformation.

you are kinder than i am
i think they pluck it from their nether regions and throw it out confident the faithful will swallow anything.  they are not wrong
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 09:59:10 AM by cassandra and sara's daddy »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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KD5NRH

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #158 on: April 15, 2014, 09:49:45 AM »
I'm sure Bundy is a jack-hole.  He would have to be to last this long

Didn't Captain Reynolds have a theory about the sort of men that have statues?

Also any management plan or decision is open to a public comment period normally 90 days in length, if someone has an issue then they can come and comment. With a little bit of Google Fu on can find plenty of examples where the public voice did change land use.

And with 30-50 hours in a day, one could actually do all the searching necessary to keep up with the calls for public comment on issues relevant to them.  There have been plenty of times those got the absolute minimum allowable publicity to the point where even reasonably vigilant groups never found out until it was too late.

freakazoid

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2014, 09:57:24 AM »
Looks like the euthanized turtles are at a conservation center, not ones out in the wild.



Does that make a difference?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #160 on: April 15, 2014, 09:59:50 AM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #161 on: April 15, 2014, 10:09:23 AM »
Didn't Captain Reynolds have a theory about the sort of men that have statues?

And with 30-50 hours in a day, one could actually do all the searching necessary to keep up with the calls for public comment on issues relevant to them.  There have been plenty of times those got the absolute minimum allowable publicity to the point where even reasonably vigilant groups never found out until it was too late.

All you have to do is go to the home page of the parcel/forest/grassland that interests you most and its right there.

Here is Bridger-Teton National Forest. Right on the home page, second paragraph.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/btnf

The reason I used that page is that I am in the process of reviewing their management plan.
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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #162 on: April 15, 2014, 10:11:39 AM »
Does that make a difference?

They ran out of funding and it would be unethical to release domesticated turtles back into the wild, they were being fed by humans.

I wish there was some zoos or other conservation centers that could have taken them.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #163 on: April 15, 2014, 10:13:59 AM »
They ran out of funding and it would be unethical to release domesticated turtles back into the wild, they were being fed by humans.

al jones is NOT  gonna like you
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #164 on: April 15, 2014, 10:15:06 AM »
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roo_ster

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #165 on: April 15, 2014, 10:30:23 AM »

yes

No, not really.  

The Endangered Species Act is a real piece of work.  

A city could be overrun with, say, gray squirrels.  But if a geographically distinct habitat is short its supposedly proper proportion of squirrels, the jack-booted bureaucritters can swoop in and declare that particular population an "endangered species."  Some city park, separated from other squirrel-habitat by roadways, can be the critical, crucial habitat of an endangered species!  The Grant's Park Squirrel (AKA, the dirt-common "gray squirrel") can then be protected with the ESA and further development of Grant Park halted due to the critical, crucial and oh-so-important-to-the-ecology Grant's Park Squirrel.  One more victory for the ESA and right-thinking people, for sure.

The distinction can be something as mundane as a river or roadway.  Lots of critters on this side, but not enough (according to the jackboots) on the other.  We have a new endangered species!  

What I have described is what occurred with the Spotted Owl.  There were puh-lenty of Spotted Owls, but relatively few north of one river.  That was the pretext used to kill off industry and destroy livelihoods of icky white people in the PNW. (Were they "native" Americans, there would have at least been a decent fight, like the "indians vs whales" incident.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Spotted_Owl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strix_occidentalis

    Strix occidentalis caurina – Northern Spotted Owl
    Strix occidentalis occidentalis – California Spotted Owl
    Strix occidentalis lucida – Mexican Spotted Owl

Range of the Spotted Owl


Spotted Owl:


Northern Spotted Owl:


Could have been named "Same MF-ing Owl From Oaxaca to Vancouver."  Matter of fact, perhaps we should have invited some of those owl south of the border up north here to do the work our owls wouldn't do.


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fifth_column

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #166 on: April 15, 2014, 10:33:13 AM »
According to this Dana Loesch article the fed gov owns 84% of Nevada.  She's also claiming a link between the BLM actions forcing local ranchers out and Harry Reid.

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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #167 on: April 15, 2014, 10:33:17 AM »
No, not really. 

The Endangered Species Act is a real piece of work. 

A city could be overrun with, say, gray squirrels.  But if a geographically distinct habitat is short its supposedly proper proportion of squirrels, the jack-booted bureaucritters can swoop in and declare that particular population an "endangered species."  Some city park, separated from other squirrel-habitat by roadways, can be the critical, crucial habitat of an endangered species!  The Grant's Park Squirrel (AKA, the dirt-common "gray squirrel") can then be protected with the ESA and further development of Grant Park halted due to the critical, crucial and oh-so-important-to-the-ecology Grant's Park Squirrel.  One more victory for the ESA and right-thinking people, for sure.

The distinction can be something as mundane as a river or roadway.  Lots of critters on this side, but not enough (according to the jackboots) on the other.  We have a new endangered species! 

What I have described is what occurred with the Spotted Owl.  There were puh-lenty of Spotted Owls, but relatively few north of one river.  That was the pretext used to kill off industry and destroy livelihoods of icky white people in the PNW. (Were they "native" Americans, there would have at least been a decent fight, like the "indians vs whales" incident.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Spotted_Owl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strix_occidentalis

    Strix occidentalis caurina – Northern Spotted Owl
    Strix occidentalis occidentalis – California Spotted Owl
    Strix occidentalis lucida – Mexican Spotted Owl

Range of the Spotted Owl


Spotted Owl:


Northern Spotted Owl:


Could have been named "Same MF-ing Owl From Oaxaca to Vancauver."  Matter of fact, perhaps we should have invited some of those owl south of the border up north here to do the work our owls wouldn't do.




Have you done any research about the PNW spotted owl issue? If you look really deep into the issue the N. Spotted owl was a scape goat for a timber industry that was going to have to close mills and harvest contracts because of the decline in demand for timber for that region.
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roo_ster

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2014, 10:41:24 AM »
Have you done any research about the PNW spotted owl issue? If you look really deep into the issue the N. Spotted owl was a scape goat for a timber industry that was going to have to close mills and harvest contracts because of the decline in demand for timber for that region.

Yep, I have also read other fairy tales.

I can also note the cost of timber over time, something a bit more solid to base one's conclusions on than self-serving revisionism by bureaucritters and fellow-travelers..
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RevDisk

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2014, 10:41:51 AM »
They ran out of funding and it would be unethical to release domesticated turtles back into the wild, they were being fed by humans.

I wish there was some zoos or other conservation centers that could have taken them.

Not just unethical. Said turtles picked up different bacteria and pathogens than wild turtles. The smartest thing would have been to leave all the turtles in a huge but enclosed open area optimized for turtles. Then you could just open the gate and let them go. 

Maybe pick a couple sacrificial lambs for the mandatory "let the humans touch the 'wild' animal" fundraising and PR aspects. Serve as turtle soup as they're finished serving as noble sacrifices to the PR deities.  But if you touch and play around with the whole lot? Start feeding them different stuff? Yep. Gotta put them down, or you'll potentially spread a pathogen that'll wipe out the whole species.
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KD5NRH

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2014, 10:44:10 AM »
All you have to do is go to the home page of the parcel/forest/grassland that interests you most and its right there.

That covers one aspect of life.  Then you need to remember to check the BATFE site daily for opportunities to comment on new infringements of your Second Amendment rights, the IRS site daily for opportunities to comment on attempts to rape your wallet more, the EPA site daily for opportunities to comment on banning your septic tank, the DOE site daily for opportunities to comment on making you buy crappy fuel, the NHTSA site dailyfor opportunities to comment on making your next car crappier than the fuel, the DOI site daily for opportunities to comment on screwing up the national park you want to take your kids to next year, etc.  Then you have to keep up with your state doing a lot of the same, and don't forget your city and county in the mix as well.

So yeah, that's "all you have to do."

KD5NRH

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #171 on: April 15, 2014, 10:46:16 AM »
Gotta put them down, or you'll potentially spread a pathogen that'll wipe out the whole species.

Worked on a lot of Native Americans.  When's the APS wild turtle petting tour?

For that matter, when is the APS bureaucrat and liberal elected official petting tour?

Tallpine

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #172 on: April 15, 2014, 10:56:49 AM »
Did you report this activity to the higher ups?

I'm pretty sure that the folks who actually witnessed the flares being set off did report it to no avail.  They are dead now so I can't ask them anymore.

It was really strange how a fire got started in early summer immediately following one of the deepest snow winters on record.  ;/
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charby

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #173 on: April 15, 2014, 11:41:00 AM »
Yep, I have also read other fairy tales.

I can also note the cost of timber over time, something a bit more solid to base one's conclusions on than self-serving revisionism by bureaucritters and fellow-travelers..

Did you know they also approved harvest on several of the timber parcels in question but they went unharvested?

My "fairly tail" came directly from one of the members of the "God Squad".
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Tallpine

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Re: This could get Interesting
« Reply #174 on: April 15, 2014, 02:49:19 PM »
Did you know they also approved harvest on several of the timber parcels in question but they went unharvested?

What - five years after everyone went out of business...?  =|

Does anyone recall the "housing bubble" of about 10 years ago?  That lumber had to come from somewhere.
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