This could get Interesting

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Bundy promised to shoot . On video.  And the "crowd"hes got 52 grandkids 14 kids. How many weren't kin? Stupid kin but kin. I expect him to commit suicide by cop but I hope they jail him. Real suicide is a mormon bozo nono.
And ain't it odd the Nevada cattlemens assoc doesn't play with him?

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You couldn't ask for a better poster child for the disturbed than cliven and his kin
http://mobile.rawstory.com/all/2014-04-16-cliven-bundy-threatens-violence-against-federal-agents-as-sean-hannity-eggs-him-on#1


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[Ben]

The Sagebrush Rebellion did have a history of violence towards government agencies and employees. How would of you felt if a couple BLM employees showed up to round up the cattle and they were killed by the Bundy clan and followers? Would you support a para military assault on the Bundy Ranch then?

Then they show up with one or two cops, not a "shock and awe" force. Or if there really were credible threats, not just bluster from the Bundys, then you might "for the safety of our personnel", not show up at all, and continue working through the courts. There was no threat to human life that required BLM to absolutely have to be there if their lives were in danger. This is about cows and money.

I would absolutely not support a "paramilitary" assault on the ranch, even if Bundy himself shot someone. That's how you get more innocent people killed. Unless that's now an okay way to "get your man", sorta like Randy Weaver's wife.

[Brad Johnson]

Guys, you know that anyone who's every worked on a ranch is laughing their heads off at both of you, right?  You're nitpicking each other to death over conspiracy-theorist BS semantics.  If you want to know what the real problem is, and why things happened the way they did, why don't you tritty-trot your happy city behinds down to the nearest real ranch and ask?  I can tell you with absolute certainty they won't be discussing force/scale/response ratios specific to this incident.  They will be talking about things like, oh, systematic destruction of their way of life with this just being the latest and most public example.

The BLM (and government in general) has been pushing ranchers around for decades, all with the willing aid of ass-ignorant Americans who's ideas about ranching comes from watching City Slickers.  Finally someone stands up to the sorry SOBs and the best you clowns can do is sit around running them down and trying to out-infowar each other? 

Now, when you're finished fighting over which of you has the better seat on the see-saw, can we clear the playground so the other kids can come out?

Brad

[SADShooter]

I, for one, welcome our new safely and responsibly raised imported Chinese "beef".

[Ben]

Guys, you know that anyone who's every worked on a ranch is laughing their heads off at both of you, right? 

Brad

What did I do?

[Brad Johnson]

What did I do?

I like blanket statements.  Gives me a false sense of superiority and feeds my pseudo-megalomaniacal tendencies.   

Brad

[Balog]

I wonder if some folks on this thread have ever read extensively on the history of the Founding Fathers (let alone the rank and file fighting the Brits), as individuals? I guess you're only allowed to object to the .gov thugs when you're of a sainted character.   That guy Koresh was a real bastard too, so it was totally his fault that the feds burned all those people alive and shot the women and children running out of the buildings. Randy Weaver? Total racist, so the feds had no choice but to murder his family.

[Ben]

I like blanket statements.  Gives me a false sense of superiority and feeds my pseudo-megalomaniacal tendencies.   

Brad

Well, as long as you recognize it...  

[TommyGunn]

Guys, you know that anyone who's every worked on a ranch is laughing their heads off at both of you, right?  You're nitpicking each other to death over conspiracy-theorist BS semantics.  If you want to know what the real problem is, and why things happened the way they did, why don't you tritty-trot your happy city behinds down to the nearest real ranch and ask?  I can tell you with absolute certainty they won't be discussing force/scale/response ratios specific to this incident.  They will be talking about things like, oh, systematic destruction of their way of life with this just being the latest and most public example.

The BLM (and government in general) has been pushing ranchers around for decades, all with the willing aid of ass-ignorant Americans who's ideas about ranching comes from watching City Slickers.  Finally someone stands up to the sorry SOBs and the best you clowns can do is sit around running them down and trying to out-infowar each other? 

Now, when you're finished fighting over which of you has the better seat on the see-saw, can we clear the playground so the other kids can come out?

Brad

FINALLY, someone injects a perspective that projects what the "bigger picture" behind this Bundy situation really is.

[charby]

What did I do?

I'm trying to figure that out also.

[charby]

Replace BLM with private land owner. How would you side with the private landowner if Bundy's cattle were grazing on it and Bundy refusing the pay rent.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If there was in  fact a bigger perspective the lds church and Nevada cattlemens assoc would be all over this. They want no part of him. gor good reason. Watching folks on the right rally to a fraud is just as funny as when its folks on the left. Equally as myopic

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[charby]

Then they show up with one or two cops, not a "shock and awe" force. Or if there really were credible threats, not just bluster from the Bundys, then you might "for the safety of our personnel", not show up at all, and continue working through the courts. There was no threat to human life that required BLM to absolutely have to be there if their lives were in danger. This is about cows and money.

I would absolutely not support a "paramilitary" assault on the ranch, even if Bundy himself shot someone. That's how you get more innocent people killed. Unless that's now an okay way to "get your man", sorta like Randy Weaver's wife.

Bundy acted like he had a force of faithful followers that were going to show up and side with him. Hell, even the picture in the Washington Times show a protester aiming a rifle towards the line.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Even breitbart acknowledges the harry reid chinese story was bull but folks are still pushing it. Heck look in this thread. The more manure you shovel for your side yhe more it shows your weakness. From rhe beginning the bull was pretty one sided

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[TommyGunn]

Why does everyone assume Bundy has to be some sort of virginal pure-as-driven-snow saint in this to justify some support?
He is reportedly the last rancher in that county -- because the government has been driving ranchers there out of business ~~ and using the funding derived from grazing fees to accomplish this.
Wouldn't that cause anyone to be resentful of the government's actions?
Since when is it the purpose of our government, or any of its agencies, to do harm to the citizens?   I thought the purpose of government was supposed to be both minimal and beneficial....but then maybe I still believe in Santa Claus.
Bundy may have a few pimples.  After Ruby Ridge & Waco I'd say our government has worse.

Just be careful of the media .... and  low hanging fruit  when dealing with cattle and bull .......

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Why is anyone believing anything he says? Time after time he has lied
Or those in his camp have
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[Balog]

TG: any time the .gov does something bad, CSD just tries character assassination on the victim. It's the "bitch had it coming" method of argumentation. Best to ignore it. I can only assume Charby is joining him because he views BLM as a potential ally or future employer.

[roo_ster]

Replace BLM with private land owner. How would you side with the private landowner if Bundy's cattle were grazing on it and Bundy refusing the pay rent.

Replace King George with any randomly selected colonist.  Makes as much sense. 

[Balog]

http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-bureau-of-land-managements-bastille.html

[Ben]

Replace BLM with private land owner. How would you side with the private landowner if Bundy's cattle were grazing on it and Bundy refusing the pay rent.

Well, first off, the private landowner charges lease fees based on market forces and what the market will bear, so kind of apples and oranges.

[charby]

I can only assume Charby is joining him because he views BLM as a potential ally or future employer.

No not at all. I think Mr. Bundy had all the chances in the world to be compliant (with peaceful resolution) and choose otherwise. No man is above the law, whether you agree with the law or not. I don't want anarchy, I do think about resource usage past my lifetime and how a poor decision today can cause devastation in the future long after I am gone.

[charby]

Replace King George with any randomly selected colonist.  Makes as much sense. 

Using your rational: Okay lets give all the land back to the Natives and everyone go back to your ancestor's home land.

[Balog]

No not at all. I think Mr. Bundy had all the chances in the world to be compliant (with peaceful resolution) and choose otherwise. No man is above the law, whether you agree with the law or not. I don't want anarchy, I do think about resource usage past my lifetime and how a poor decision today can cause devastation in the future long after I am gone.

What are your thoughts on the American Revolution? How about civil disobedience against segregation or miscegenation laws? The Underground Railroad, which directly violated the Fugitive Slave laws?

Cause I'm pretty sure your "No man is above the law" schtick, while very noble and principled sounding, is really more like "No man is above the laws that I don't dislike that much."

Using your rational: Okay lets give all the land back to the Natives and everyone go back to your ancestor's home land.

Which natives? Most of the tribal lines at the time of the colonists arrival were drawn by conquest. Hell, the Apaches literally genocided the Anasazi off the face of the earth in their blitzkrieg up from Central America.

[charby]

Which natives? Most of the tribal lines at the time of the colonists arrival were drawn by conquest. Hell, the Apaches literally genocided the Anasazi off the face of the earth in their blitzkrieg up from Central America.

So did every other group of people in the rest of the world.