VA police prepare to forcibly give a teen boy an erection in order to photo it

[T.O.M.]

Talking to the PO's who specialize in sex offenders, they cannot think of any local case of a parent being charged for taking naked baby photos.  However, they do know of a case where it was brought up in a divorce situation by a mother seeking custody, arguing that dad photographing the little girl in the tub was a sign of pedophilia.  The magistrate looked at the photos and threw it out.  I know that magistrate...she's good at using common sense.

[MechAg94]

I would think that would benthe best way.  In my case, the evidence was largely irrelevent, asbthe victim (a 6 year old girl) didn't exactly give a detailed description of what the perp was sticking in her mouth.  Defense lawyer was trying to ask for more details, but I believe the girl honestly said she didn't look at it "really closely."  Girl testified he "peed white stuff on her shirt", and DNA matched (defense argued the perp used her dirty shirt for private solo entertainment). 

As to the issue, absent some kind of sigjificant scarring, defect, or such, I can't imagine a photo,  or examination, would make all the difference.  But a witnessed doctor examination would be the best way, and probably best protect the rights of an accused...

Amazing what difference it makes when you have or don't have all the information.  Sorry you have to deal with that.  Thank you for doing so.  I am not sure if I could sit in that room while armed for worry of doing something I should not.  Damn supreme court. 

[T.O.M.]

On a break between hearings and discussing this case with some attorneys, reading up about things.  Frankly, I'm blown away by this case.  The prosecutor is seeking max level felonies on the boy, yet not even charging the girl who apparently sent photos of herself to the boy as well.  This is crap, for several reasons:
1.  Kiddie porn laws were drafted to protect kids from predators.  "Selfies" don't really fall into that category, and should not be treated the same way.
2.  Fundamental fairness would require that if you charge one for an act, you should charge the other who committed the same act.  I can't even start to comprehend why they are charging the boy and not the girl.  If it's gender bias, then it's bull $hit.  And if the judge is worth and damn (and the law there is like the law is here), it may just be a time to find the charges to be unconstitutional as applied.
3.  Why are they maxing a kid here?  There are dozens of charges they could file if the goal was to keep an eye on the kid and see if he's a horny teen or a predator in the making. 

Stories like this one make it difficult for me to defend prosecutors and judges.

[mtnbkr]

This being Manassas, I suspect the boy is Hispanic and the girl is not, hence the push to throw the book at him.

Chris

[Ron]

One has to wonder if there is a back story regarding the parents of these children.

Are any of the parents politically connected or involved?

Using the attack on the son to hurt his political parent or a connected parent pulling strings to inflict maximum pain maybe?

[fifth_column]

When first reading about the case I got the impression the girl might be the daughter of somebody with pull in the community . . .

[Ron]

When first reading about the case I got the impression the girl might be the daughter of somebody with pull in the community . . .

some pigs are more equal

[onions!]

This being Manassas, I suspect the boy is Hispanic and the girl is not, hence the push to throw the book at him.

Chris

Kid looks white to me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2686387/Police-want-photograph-boy-17-state-arousal-giving-INJECTION-prove-sent-explicit-video-girlfriend-15-child-pornography-case.html

[fifth_column]

I was wondering, just out of idle curiosity mind you, does anybody have any knowledge of this injection they keep referencing?

Purely for research, of course . . . .

[mtnbkr]

Kid looks white to me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2686387/Police-want-photograph-boy-17-state-arousal-giving-INJECTION-prove-sent-explicit-video-girlfriend-15-child-pornography-case.html

Ahh, ok.  They originally linked article had no pics.

Chris

[RevDisk]

I think the weakest link here is the hospital.  They would have no immunity.  The goal is loss of license for the doctor, and loss of license and accreditation for the hospital.  Let the disgraced hospital sue the cops.  Jailtime for the doctor would be appropriate, but no point in seeking that because the prosecutor would be the same a-hole that charged the stupid young man with a felony.

Which is the correct way of handling it. Officers have qualified immunity. The correct answer is to not only sue for a payday, but work with medical boards to yank the licenses of the medical personnel who enable this sort of thing. As well as sanction the facilities that are insane enough to cooperate. They do not have qualified immunity from lawsuits or medical boards.

Any decent sized medical facility should have someone like MillCreek to push policies that say things like "Do not routinely violate the body of a patient for non-medical purposes just because a police officer asks you to do so" or "Do not create child pornography with company equipment, unless it is part of a routine and necessary medical activity. Do not distribute any such pictures to anyone outside the company." Hell, any non-medical activity of an unusual nature should be kicked to their risk manager.

What I don't understand is why there is not a similar system with POST (Police Officer Standards and Training Council), which is usually necessary for law enforcement employment. If you do something stupid that violates POST standards, you lose your POST certification. Makes complete and logical sense, unless I'm missing something?

[AJ Dual]

On a break between hearings and discussing this case with some attorneys, reading up about things.  Frankly, I'm blown away by this case.  The prosecutor is seeking max level felonies on the boy, yet not even charging the girl who apparently sent photos of herself to the boy as well.  This is crap, for several reasons:
1.  Kiddie porn laws were drafted to protect kids from predators.  "Selfies" don't really fall into that category, and should not be treated the same way.
2.  Fundamental fairness would require that if you charge one for an act, you should charge the other who committed the same act.  I can't even start to comprehend why they are charging the boy and not the girl.  If it's gender bias, then it's bull $hit.  And if the judge is worth and damn (and the law there is like the law is here), it may just be a time to find the charges to be unconstitutional as applied.
3.  Why are they maxing a kid here?  There are dozens of charges they could file if the goal was to keep an eye on the kid and see if he's a horny teen or a predator in the making.  

Stories like this one make it difficult for me to defend prosecutors and judges.

It's grandstanding, pure and simple.

Putting this boy through the wringer for a few reasons:

- Elected prosecutorial office, "tough on crime". Hitting a hot button for anxious parents worried about "sexting".

- Perhaps actually trying to use a boy as an example to reduce sexting activity in the teen community. (good luck...)

- Prosecutors use the "severity of the charge" and the fear and dread it instills in the accused as an extra-judicial mode of punishment IMO.

Then, they act magnanimous and show "mercy" at the last minute and offer a plea deal perhaps even one that has some semblance of sanity and proportionality to the actual crime.

However, when a defendant does not grovel appropriately and fights, then the prosecutor is stuck and they have to double-down or a plea deal would make the prosecutor look "weak".

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

This being Manassas, I suspect the boy is Hispanic and the girl is not, hence the push to throw the book at him.

Chris

Likely. Or girl Hispanic boy black. Look for some history on boy or he wouldn't have grandma and a guardian ad liteum

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Ahh, ok.  They originally linked article had no pics.

Chris

I can ask around about the kid. I have a bunch of man nasal kids in a program I work with

[Hawkmoon]

What I don't understand is why there is not a similar system with POST (Police Officer Standards and Training Council), which is usually necessary for law enforcement employment. If you do something stupid that violates POST standards, you lose your POST certification. Makes complete and logical sense, unless I'm missing something?

You're missing the line.



Hint: It's thin, and it's blue.

[MillCreek]

I was wondering, just out of idle curiosity mind you, does anybody have any knowledge of this injection they keep referencing?

Purely for research, of course . . . .

It is called Caverject, and it used to be all the rage, before Viagra and Cialis came along.  Caverject, which became available in the early 80's or a system of vacuum pumps and cock rings from even earlier, were the only treatments available to treat erectile dysfunction back in the day.  You had to train the patients to inject themselves at the base or the side of the penis and an erection would hopefully follow within 5-15 minutes.  The erection would last for 20-30 minutes, depending on the dose.  You were advised to use no more than 12 injections per month, and after prolonged use, scarring was a problem.

It was usually not covered by insurance, and the enthusiasm of the patients to inject themselves in the penis was low.  It is still used for those patients who do not respond to Viagra or Cialis, but it is no longer a big seller.

[BlueStarLizzard]

It is called Caverject, and it used to be all the rage, before Viagra and Cialis came along.  Caverject, which became available in the early 80's or a system of vacuum pumps and cock rings from even earlier, were the only treatments available to treat erectile dysfunction back in the day.  You had to train the patients to inject themselves at the base or the side of the penis and an erection would hopefully follow within 5-15 minutes.  The erection would last for 20-30 minutes, depending on the dose.  You were advised to use no more than 12 injections per month, and after prolonged use, scarring was a problem.

It was usually not covered by insurance, and the enthusiasm of the patients to inject themselves in the penis was low.  It is still used for those patients who do not respond to Viagra or Cialis, but it is no longer a big seller.

OK, this whole drama is just WTF!! as it is, but your saying they're going to shove a needle into this kids junk?!?! When they could just pop him a viagra?

Oh WTH?!?!

[Monkeyleg]

It is called Caverject, and it used to be all the rage, before Viagra and Cialis came along.  Caverject, which became available in the early 80's or a system of vacuum pumps and cock rings from even earlier, were the only treatments available to treat erectile dysfunction back in the day.  You had to train the patients to inject themselves at the base or the side of the penis and an erection would hopefully follow within 5-15 minutes.  The erection would last for 20-30 minutes, depending on the dose.  You were advised to use no more than 12 injections per month, and after prolonged use, scarring was a problem.

It was usually not covered by insurance, and the enthusiasm of the patients to inject themselves in the penis was low.  It is still used for those patients who do not respond to Viagra or Cialis, but it is no longer a big seller.

There's another drug that was also developed in the 1980's called Trimix. It's also injected. Both actually work better than Viagra or Cialis for some, since the length of time for an erection can be adjusted by dosage anywhere from half an hour to two or three or even four hours (max for any drug before an emergency room visit). Trimix has other advantages over Viagra, such as allowing the erection to remain after orgasm. I suspect that the need to inject into the penis was a major reason for the injectable drugs not catching on.

Now back to our usual programming.

[Marnoot]

OK, this whole drama is just WTF!! as it is, but your saying they're going to shove a needle into this kids junk?!?! When they could just pop him a viagra?

I'm fairly certain Viagra still requires arousal on the part of the subject. Something like Caverject forces an erection with or without that.

[Boomhauer]

Like I told my GF the other night, anybody getting a needle near my junk is gonna *expletive deleted*ing die.

[Monkeyleg]

I'm fairly certain Viagra still requires arousal on the part of the subject. Something like Caverject forces an erection with or without that.

Adrenaline will bring it down no matter what the drug. The injectables don't force an erection if there's no arousal. They will cause the penis to "plump up" a bit,  but won't give anything like a full erection if the guy isn't motivated.

The only way I could see them getting a full erection with Caverject or Trimix or Bimix would be to inject him with a really massive dose. The problem with overdosing is that it will result in an erection lasting more than four hours, which can cause a priapism.  A penis reaches an erect state by having blood filling the tissues in the corpus cavernosum. The drugs cause the blood to stay in that tissue. If it's in there too long without replenishment, the tissue will be damaged, and the guy may not be able to achieve erections again. A priapism is an emergency room condition, and is treated with injections of pseudoephedrine, or in severe cases by surgically draining the tissue.

Maybe there's another drug that gives a full erection regardless of arousal. I would think that would be a popular alternative to the injectables I mentioned.

[cordex]

You know, the breadth (or is that girth?) of expertise here is something else.

[MillCreek]

You know, the breadth (or is that girth?) of expertise here is something else.

It's not the size, it is knowing how to use it that is key.

[Monkeyleg]

You know, the breadth (or is that girth?) of expertise here is something else.

I wonder if the cops and prosecutor think the injection is going to do something that in reality it cannot.

Or maybe I just get too much info from the internet.

[onions!]

Yohimbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yohimbine

I read about this stuff in a porno when I was a kid.The odd name made it stick.

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausinystalia_johimbe

There was a South American(?) plant that would accomplish the same thing,IIRC.If you wanted a rock hard boner for twelve hours or more.And a MASSIVE headache.

I posted earlier about sticking a cattle prod up the kids butt.I *thought* that,at one time,electricity applied to the prostate area would do the same thing.

Enough weird trivia from me today.

And no,I've no first hand experience with any of these.