Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities

[Perd Hapley]

Navy yard guy bought gun legally.

Didn't he also take one or more firearms from a security guard?

[txgho1911]

The Holiday Party Killed Those People in California
Within hours of the shooting in California, the left was blaming Republicans and Christians. The media speculated that the shooter was white. But it turns out to be another round of Islamic radicals.
http://www.erickontheradio.com/2015/12/the-holiday-party-killed-those-people-in-california/
On CNN, a talking head openly speculated that the Islamic radical wasn’t a terrorist, just offended by having a holiday party.

[Ben]

The report I read earlier today said that all the guns had been bought legally. So let's see:

• Columbine: Guns bought legally. Stolen from parents by shooters. Check.
• Sandy Hook: Guns bought legally, shooter killed mother to get guns. Check.
• Fort Hood #1: Guns bought legally. Check.
• Virginia Tech: Guns bought legally. Check.
• Boston marathon: Pressure cookers bought legally. Check.
• Aurora Theater: Guns bought legally. Check.
• Navy Yard: Not sure -- was his gun bought legally?
• Fort Hood #2: Gun bought legally. Check.
• San Bernardino. Guns bought legally. Check.

The other thing I'm curious about is that they are reporting at least 75 rounds fired. CA has a ten round mag limit, and I'm pretty sure both models of AR used have the cosmetic features that require a bullet button, which for those not familiar, requires the tip of a bullet or a tool to be inserted into an indent to release the mag. There are going to be no rapid mag swaps with that. If they did swap mags (legally) they slowly swapped to another ten rounder.

While there are plenty of pre-ban standard capacity mags floating around, given the killers ages, I don't believe there's any way they would be in legal possession of such. If they bought their guns legally, they would have ten round mags and most likely bullet buttons on the rifles. If they showed up with rifles, it doesn't seem logical that they would empty ten rounds, then switch to pistols for the rest of their attack. My bet would be some lawbreaking occurred regarding weapons and mags, which would show the ineffectiveness of CA laws.

[BlueStarLizzard]

The other thing I'm curious about is that they are reporting at least 75 rounds fired. CA has a ten round mag limit, and I'm pretty sure both models of AR used have the cosmetic features that require a bullet button, which for those not familiar, requires the tip of a bullet or a tool to be inserted into an indent to release the mag. There are going to be no rapid mag swaps with that. If they did swap mags (legally) they slowly swapped to another ten rounder.

While there are plenty of pre-ban standard capacity mags floating around, given the killers ages, I don't believe there's any way they would be in legal possession of such. If they bought their guns legally, they would have ten round mags and most likely bullet buttons on the rifles. If they showed up with rifles, it doesn't seem logical that they would empty ten rounds, then switch to pistols for the rest of their attack. My bet would be some lawbreaking occurred regarding weapons and mags, which would show the ineffectiveness of CA laws.

The report I heard did say they had "high" capacity magazines, but the dude (police captain?) refused to state if the magazines were legal or not.

I was more concerned by the round count for the police that responded. 380 rounds to kill two people vs. 75 to kill 14...

[Angel Eyes]

Not sure how reliable, but on Calguns some folks were quoting a Fox News report that the ARs did not have bullet buttons and had 30-round magazines.

[Fitz]

Not sure how reliable, but on Calguns some folks were quoting a Fox News report that the ARs did not have bullet buttons and had 30-round magazines.

Psh. That's simply not possible.

[brimic]

Psh. That's simply not possible.

The shooting happened in a 'gun free zone' as well. There has to be a unicorn somewhere in this story....

[Hawkmoon]

Navy yard guy bought gun legally.

Thought so. Thank you.

Now add another column -- for how many of those locations were places that didn't allow firearms.

Yep -- we NEED another law!

[Hawkmoon]

Not sure how reliable, but on Calguns some folks were quoting a Fox News report that the ARs did not have bullet buttons and had 30-round magazines.

Psh. That's simply not possible.

Of course it's not possible. Barbara Boxer herself told us that California's gun laws work.

[Perd Hapley]

The other thing I'm curious about is that they are reporting at least 75 rounds fired. CA has a ten round mag limit, and I'm pretty sure both models of AR used have the cosmetic features that require a bullet button, which for those not familiar, requires the tip of a bullet or a tool to be inserted into an indent to release the mag. There are going to be no rapid mag swaps with that. If they did swap mags (legally) they slowly swapped to another ten rounder.

While there are plenty of pre-ban standard capacity mags floating around, given the killers ages, I don't believe there's any way they would be in legal possession of such. If they bought their guns legally, they would have ten round mags and most likely bullet buttons on the rifles. If they showed up with rifles, it doesn't seem logical that they would empty ten rounds, then switch to pistols for the rest of their attack. My bet would be some lawbreaking occurred regarding weapons and mags, which would show the ineffectiveness of CA laws.

Question for our California members:

Has California a common-sense limit on the number of people one may jihad to death? Or do they have that NRA loophole, where one may kill as many infidel as one wishes?

[bedlamite]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/3/syed-farook-tashfeen-malik-erased-digital-footprin/

nothing to see here folks, move along

[Hawkmoon]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/3/syed-farook-tashfeen-malik-erased-digital-footprin/

nothing to see here folks, move along

This does tend to discredit the notion that he was simply upset by something that happened at the party that morning.

[Mannlicher]

Navy yard guy bought gun legally.

the obvious solution for liberals is to change the laws so that folks can't  buy guns at all.  That does away with the silly 'legally purchased' loophole.

Oh, and WTF is "SJS"?

[Ben]

Question for our California members:

Has California a common-sense limit on the number of people one may jihad to death? Or do they have that NRA loophole, where one may kill as many infidel as one wishes?

One thing I can say with near certainty, is that the (third try?) on ammo registration, the bill to ban bullet buttons, as well as the bill to ban ownership of standard capacity magazines will make it to the governor's desk now, thanks to this.

Whether he signs them or not (he vetoed all past versions of the ammo bill), who can say?

[Marnoot]

Oh, and WTF is "SJS"?

Sudden Jihad Syndrome

[Hutch]

This does tend to discredit the notion that he was simply upset by something that happened at the party that morning.

Not to mention they farmed out the 6-mo old baby to family.  This is about as spontaneous as a Rose Bowl parade.

[Mannlicher]

Sudden Jihad Syndrome

well there is an oxymoron if I ever saw one.   lol

[Marnoot]

Could be they had planned to hit that work party and he went first to ensure it was as soft and "target rich" as expected. Upon confirming such went home to retrieve his wife and get started.

[makattak]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/04/surreal-media-pushes-into-farooks-apartment-rifles-through-everything-there/

The media (multiple members) just waltzed through the Jihadi's apartment, broadcasting everything the found.

Oh, THAT just fills me with confidence in the F. B. I.

[RoadKingLarry]

Looks like the FBI is actually gonna call it terrorism instead of workplace violence

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/04/socal-jihadist-wife-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-report/?intcmp=hpbt1

[RoadKingLarry]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/04/surreal-media-pushes-into-farooks-apartment-rifles-through-everything-there/

The media (multiple members) just waltzed through the Jihadi's apartment, broadcasting everything the found.

Oh, THAT just fills me with confidence in the F. B. I.

WTF? As much as I am in contempt of most of our federal law enforcement weenies this brings things to a new level of disgust. What moron dropped the ball and let the press into what cannot possibly be a completely secured crime scene?
The only possible explanation I can come up with is that it was deliberate so that the feds can now claim that the scene has been so contaminated that anything else they find is useless.

The tiny little voice of evil way down in the dark corners of my mind says it was hoping for one last undetected booby trap...

[Angel Eyes]

Looks like the FBI is actually gonna call it terrorism instead of workplace violence

... much to the President's chagrin, I'm sure.

[T.O.M.]

WTF? As much as I am in contempt of most of our federal law enforcement weenies this brings things to a new level of disgust. What moron dropped the ball and let the press into what cannot possibly be a completely secured crime scene?
The only possible explanation I can come up with is that it was deliberate so that the feds can now claim that the scene has been so contaminated that anything else they find is useless.

The tiny little voice of evil way down in the dark corners of my mind says it was hoping for one last undetected booby trap...

Think the other way.  Deliberate so that the press sees all that they had.  Thousands of rounds of ammo.  Receipts from internet gun dealers.  The tools and weapons of war, all bought courtesy of Bud's Gunshop (the receipt shows an invoice from Buds).  Boss in DC tells them that there's no case to prosecute against these two, so any risk to the evidence is minimal.  God knows anything obviously good was grabbed and hauled out in the first couple of hours.  Press posts the amount of ammo, parts, and receipt for an online purchase...

Boxer, Schumer and Co. will say "Look. Terrorists used the internet to gain the tools they needed to wage war on America.  Ban internet sales of ammo.  Ban internet sales of guns.  Ban sales on the no-fly list.  Require NICS for ammo purchases."  And they will point to this as a basis.

[Ben]

Boxer, Schumer and Co. will say "Look. Terrorists used the internet to gain the tools they needed to wage war on America.  Ban internet sales of ammo.  Ban internet sales of guns.  Ban sales on the no-fly list.  Require NICS for ammo purchases."  And they will point to this as a basis.

Sadly, I think you hit the nail on the head.

I think all we can hope for is that because this was indeed terrorism, and is actually getting media attention as terrorism, that there may be a groundswell of, "Wait a minute, this could happen to me! I want a gun!".

I think people are more prone to be anti-gun when it's one of the "lone whacko white guys". This is more akin to invasion, and I think it gets people into a different mindset.

[T.O.M.]

Another thought... looking at all of the internet printed pages, the internet gun and/or ammo sales.  Patriot Act just expired.

Patriot Act II: the Empire Strikes Back.  NSA authorized to monitor phones and internet of whole country so they can find these terrorists.  Send out probe droids...I mean spyware...to track them down.