Author Topic: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities  (Read 22943 times)

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2015, 08:22:32 AM »
I've been a .gov employee at some level my entire adult life. And I find it hard to believe that there is a conspiracy to this level and breadth.  I have never known any competence at secrecy, especially with so many people as would need to be involved here.  We're talking about hundreds of people, if not thousands, who would have some level of inside knowledge, yet none of this knowledge has leaked.

That said, I'll also admit that I keep reading about theories because, like someone said, my needle is shaking.

That's kind of where I'm at, basically three can keep a secret if two are dead.
The old conspiracy ideas have been bubbling up in the back of my mind for several years but I've kept them tightly wrapped up in tin foil and kicked off into a dusty, cobweb filled corner of my brain but every so often stuff comes up that doesn't pass the smell test and dammit, it makes a fellow wonder sometimes.
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Scout26

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2015, 09:00:04 AM »
Quote
Police revealed late Wednesday that Farook and Malik were armed with two assault rifles and two automatic handguns in their battle to the death with the cops.

Officials told the LA Times that a .223-caliber DPMS Model A15 rifle and a Smith and Wesson M&P15 rifle were both recovered from the scene. They also found a handgun made by Llama and a Smith and Wesson handgun.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said they traced the guns and found that two of them were bought legally, though it did not specify which guns and who purchased them.


Anybody wanna bet they were on some kind of  "watch list", since that bill is pending in Congress?
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2015, 09:33:22 AM »
What is the "spin" on droping the 3rd shooter?  So many witness reports of 3'shooters, I can't believe everyone got that confused?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2015, 09:48:40 AM »

Anybody wanna bet they were on some kind of  "watch list", since that bill is pending in Congress?

Retroactively on the list.
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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2015, 10:23:38 AM »
Quote
Officials told the LA Times that a .223-caliber DPMS Model A15 rifle and a Smith and Wesson M&P15 rifle were both recovered from the scene. They also found a handgun made by Llama and a Smith and Wesson handgun.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said they traced the guns and found that two of them were bought legally, though it did not specify which guns and who purchased them.

If some were indeed purchased legally, CA pretty much has the gun control laws that progressives have wanted for the entire country. What will the gun control narrative be? I'm curious as to magazine capacities the shooters had in this ten round state, where AR rifles have bullet buttons.

I'm betting that in-state politicians at least, will be pushing ammo registration and EBR bans. Hillary et al will probably push "Australia".
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Jocassee

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2015, 10:26:41 AM »
So was there a 3rd shooter?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2015, 10:33:09 AM »
So was there a 3rd shooter?

No, because it doesn't fit the narrative.  (maybe there was, maybe there wasn't; we'll never find out)
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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2015, 10:39:18 AM »
If some were indeed purchased legally, CA pretty much has the gun control laws that progressives have wanted for the entire country. What will the gun control narrative be? I'm curious as to magazine capacities the shooters had in this ten round state, where AR rifles have bullet buttons.

I'm betting that in-state politicians at least, will be pushing ammo registration and EBR bans. Hillary et al will probably push "Australia".

Existing laws have never stopped politicians from proposing new laws that do the same thing. It's about appearances, not substance.

makattak

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2015, 10:48:49 AM »
I am curious if this has any relationship to the San Jose power station attack.

Similar M.O.: do the damage in an area unlikely to be immediately stopped and then escape. These attackers were clearly planning to avoid identification.

The locations are 6 hours apart, but given the time between the attacks (two years), it's not impossible they are related.

(Just musings, as we have almost no evidence about the power station, that's all it is likely to be.)

Ok with more information now:

Husband and wife team aren't enough (reportedly) to have done the San Jose attack. Additionally, the wife has only been in country for less than a year, so she is ruled out.

HOWEVER, there are reports that the couple had several late night visitors unloading packages and that their home is an "IED Factory". (Note: As this comes from the news, take that with a grain of salt. Remember that a rifle and two handguns is an "arsenal" to the media, so this could mean they had built three additional bombs to the one reported at the site of the attack.)

So, I'm left with wondering if there's any relationship to the previous attack through the visitors to the home.

Signs are pointing to no, but still not outside the realm of possibility. Another feeler attack to gauge response and vulnerabilities? Again, that's unlikely but the reports of additional, possible conspirators makes me curious.
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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2015, 12:23:33 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

After this, if they do not call it terrorism, this country deserves what is about to set down on us.
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roo_ster

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2015, 01:03:55 PM »
Saw this photo about this sized on a web site:


I am wondering if it was a joke, what with the photo of Malik in a burqa. Somebody at fox6now.com has a sense of humor.








Then I open it up in its own tab:


OK, not so much a joke as smaller photo + expectations + desire to see humor everywhere.


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230RN

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2015, 01:23:34 PM »
Smart generals use false flag operations.  Dumb generals fall for them.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2015, 01:49:03 PM »
HOWEVER, there are reports that the couple had several late night visitors unloading packages and that their home is an "IED Factory". (Note: As this comes from the news, take that with a grain of salt. Remember that a rifle and two handguns is an "arsenal" to the media, so this could mean they had built three additional bombs to the one reported at the site of the attack.)

CNN is reporting 12 pipe bombs at the perps' home plus 3 at the scene of the massacre.  I'd say that qualifies as an IED factory.

This morning, Obama said that the possibility of terrorism could not be ruled out, which to my mind is a tacit acknowledgment that it is terrorism.
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Hutch

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2015, 02:12:55 PM »
If only we had common sense [barf] gun laws and a cap-and-trade carbon tax, all strife on Earf would end.  Sigh... if only...
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makattak

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2015, 03:02:15 PM »
If only we had common sense [barf] gun laws and a cap-and-trade carbon tax, all strife on Earf would end.  Sigh... if only...

You know, I bet if we had "universal background checks", a "waiting period", an outright ban on these assault weapons AND these HUGE magazines these killers used, we'd never see anything happen like we just saw in California.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Angel Eyes

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2015, 03:09:00 PM »
I seem to recall pipe bombs are already illegal, and yet these wannabe jihadis had 15 of them.

Hmmm . . .
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MechAg94

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2015, 03:10:55 PM »
If only we had common sense [barf] gun laws and a cap-and-trade carbon tax, all strife on Earf would end.  Sigh... if only...
If we had only given more guns to the drug cartels, this would never have happened. 
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KD5NRH

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2015, 03:17:56 PM »
CNN is reporting 12 pipe bombs at the perps' home plus 3 at the scene of the massacre.  I'd say that qualifies as an IED factory.

Meh.  What was the mechanism?  If we're talking a pipe nipple, couple of caps, some relatively easy to get powder and 10-20 seconds of Visco fuse, I'd be hard pressed to call it a "factory" when they just grabbed enough of the readily available bits to use up a minimum order of fuse from eBay.  If they were dismantling Radio Shack alarm clocks and rebuilding them into bomb timers inside pencil cases, then maybe.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that a bunch of pipe bombs just meant you were out of dynamite but still needed fish in some areas.

freakazoid

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2015, 03:31:15 PM »
If they were dismantling Radio Shack alarm clocks and rebuilding them into bomb timers inside pencil cases, then maybe.

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2015, 05:45:34 PM »
With the recent radicalization, pipe bombs left at home, trips to the sandbox, and the connections to known terrorists I can't help but think this wasn't his plan, and maybe someone at the party caught wind of it, and this was just to keep a lid on the bigger plan.
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brimic

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #120 on: December 03, 2015, 05:56:01 PM »
Meh.  What was the mechanism?  If we're talking a pipe nipple, couple of caps, some relatively easy to get powder and 10-20 seconds of Visco fuse, I'd be hard pressed to call it a "factory" when they just grabbed enough of the readily available bits to use up a minimum order of fuse from eBay.  If they were dismantling Radio Shack alarm clocks and rebuilding them into bomb timers inside pencil cases, then maybe.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that a bunch of pipe bombs just meant you were out of dynamite but still needed fish in some areas.

Maybe they were 'ghost' bombs made on a 3d printer, or 80% bombs finished at home with a drill press  :O
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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2015, 06:30:58 PM »
^ I snorted snot over that one.

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

dogmush

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2015, 06:36:54 PM »
This smells to me of kinda standard new jihadi.  It was touched on above with the SJS references.  They were radicalized, and were in the process of planning something big when someone said something that pushed him over the edge.  Plan went out the window, and jihad kicks off RFN.

It is pretty common in Afghanistan.  Our "partners" are just kind of simmering pissed off, and something Americans would think was small happens.  Some perceived insult. Then they go get a weapon, come back, and go all Rambo.  It's common enough ISAF actually has tactics to guard against it, and we train everyone in theater to watch for it's symptoms.

Someone at the party probably said something that set this guy off, and a nebulous future attack turned into "Honey grab a gun, Infidels die toady."
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 07:30:27 PM by dogmush »

Hawkmoon

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2015, 07:01:16 PM »
The report I read earlier today said that all the guns had been bought legally. So let's see:

  • Columbine: Guns bought legally. Stolen from parents by shooters. Check.
  • Sandy Hook: Guns bought legally, shooter killed mother to get guns. Check.
  • Fort Hood #1: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Virginia Tech: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Boston marathon: Pressure cookers bought legally. Check.
  • Aurora Theater: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Navy Yard: Not sure -- was his gun bought legally?
  • Fort Hood #2: Gun bought legally. Check.
  • San Bernardino. Guns bought legally. Check.

Seems to me we don't need more anti-gun laws or more "universal" background checks. What we need to do is work on ways to get our society back to being a community in which the first response to anything we don't like isn't to shoot someone. And IMHO the current trend of major universities to cave in to pressure from student activists to keep them "safe" from every potential harm, no matter how trivial or imagined, is probably NOT the best way to prepare people to live in the real world.
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birdman

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Re: Active shooter in CA: hostages, multiple fatalities
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2015, 07:44:34 PM »
The report I read earlier today said that all the guns had been bought legally. So let's see:

  • Columbine: Guns bought legally. Stolen from parents by shooters. Check.
  • Sandy Hook: Guns bought legally, shooter killed mother to get guns. Check.
  • Fort Hood #1: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Virginia Tech: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Boston marathon: Pressure cookers bought legally. Check.
  • Aurora Theater: Guns bought legally. Check.
  • Navy Yard: Not sure -- was his gun bought legally?
  • Fort Hood #2: Gun bought legally. Check.
  • San Bernardino. Guns bought legally. Check.

Seems to me we don't need more anti-gun laws or more "universal" background checks. What we need to do is work on ways to get our society back to being a community in which the first response to anything we don't like isn't to shoot someone. And IMHO the current trend of major universities to cave in to pressure from student activists to keep them "safe" from every potential harm, no matter how trivial or imagined, is probably NOT the best way to prepare people to live in the real world.

Navy yard guy bought gun legally.