Hillary in a free fall?

[BlueStarLizzard]

Maybe. Then again, Obama may decide that it would cause too much chaos during the Democratic primaries.

And the cynic in me wants to point out that high-level politicians have a tendency to protect each other, even if they hate each others' guts. They realize that prosecuting one of them puts a target on all of their backs, so they try to avoid it if at all possible. There's a reason we have so few impeachments, and why our political class is as slimy as it is.

Yeah, but hasn't Obama been more or less given the cold shoulder by his own party for awhile now? I mean, they didn't even want him campaigning for other Democrats.

[Regolith]

Yeah, but hasn't Obama been more or less given the cold shoulder by his own party for awhile now? I mean, they didn't even want him campaigning for other Democrats.

True. Don't know if it will enter into the equation, though. Avarice and self-preservation could quite easily overpower hate.

We'll see eventually. I just wouldn't get your hopes up, is all I'm saying.

[RocketMan]

Bottom line, HRC wins the Democrat nomination and wins the general election. The only thing that might derail this (heavy on the 'might') is HRC being indicted.  But I doubt that's going to happen.  As much as Obama and HRC despise each other, I believe Obama despises more the notion that his party might lose the general election.  He does not want to be responsible for handing the office of POTUS to the Republicans. 
HRC will win the Democrat nomination. Bernie does not have the needed support outside certain select areas, Biden is a laughing stock to too many and already regretting not running, and O'Malley who?
HRC has another important factor working in her favor.  Despite her baggage, she will be POTUS.  Democrats as a rule go to the polls, hold their noses if necessary, and vote for their candidate.  Republicans stay home rather than vote for a candidate they don't like.

[MechAg94]

The only way Hilary wins the general election is if one of the Jeb/Rubio establishment clones get the Repub nomination.  I guess there is always massive cheating.  I just don't see Democrats greatly enthused by a Hilary administration they same way they were for Obama.

[Ben]

On Obama and Hillary, I agree that as much as he despises her, he would suck it up for his party, or more precisely, for his legacy. Were there an "easy out" option for him though, I really believe he would draft Biden before he would support Sanders. It's been noted that Biden has several times now said, "I'll be a good president." That might be Biden being his usual dimwit self with the tense, or it might be Biden still seriously considering throwing in.

On another note, Hillary hysterically had a "backfire" moment in the dem debate last night (viewed by potentially up to 23 people):

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/17/clinton-no-individual-too-big-to-jail-tweet-backfires.html?intcmp=hpbt2

[Scout26]

Bottom line, HRC wins the Democrat nomination and wins the general election. The only thing that might derail this (heavy on the 'might') is HRC being indicted.  But I doubt that's going to happen.  As much as Obama and HRC despise each other, I believe Obama despises more the notion that his party might lose the general election.  He does not want to be responsible for handing the office of POTUS to the Republicans.  
HRC will win the Democrat nomination. Bernie does not have the needed support outside certain select areas, Biden is a laughing stock to too many and already regretting not running, and O'Malley who?
HRC has another important factor working in her favor.  Despite her baggage, she will be POTUS.  Democrats as a rule go to the polls, hold their noses if necessary, and vote for their candidate.  Republicans stay home rather than vote for a candidate they don't like.

I have to disagree.  There are a LOT of women that hate Hillary.  I have to give Trump credit for reviving the "Bill's a serial abuser" story.  Given the rise of the SJW's, that behavior is completely unacceptable these days.  What got swept under the rug in the 1990's is coming back to bite Hillary hard, and the "Enabler" meme is starting to stick.   Hillary's only only selling point is "I have a Vagina".  And DWS attempts to shield Hillary in the debates is failing badly, along with Hillary "hiding" from the press.   The softball questions have ended, and hard questions (Even from the Clinton News Network) are being asked.

The liberal-liberal wing of the party and the youngsters are backing Bernie.  The black vote is not that enamored of Hillary like they were for Obama, so expect both those groups to stay home in droves if Hillary is the nominee.    And both those groups turning out in record numbers were key to putting "Hope and Change" into the White House.  I don't see that happening in 2016, unless Bernie or Warren is the nominee.   The Democratic fight may be decided in SC.  If Bernie takes both Iowa and NH, then Hillary is in big trouble and it's 2008 all over again for her.  Remember, Obama didn't win by much in 2008.

Plus the R voters seem more motivated this year.  This is the year of the "Outsider" which is why Trump and Cruz have the most traction, and why Bush, Rubio, Christie, et al, can't gain any traction.   And why Trump can say just a bout anything and still climb in the polls.  The pundit class is waiting for him to say something that will torpedo him, and they have pointed to several things he's said in a attempt at "Gotcha", only see it have no effect.  

I think the best debates will be once the nominees are chosen.  Any combo of Cruz/Trump vs Hillary/Bernie will be great theater.  Especially if it's Cruz.

I don't see the D's winning this year.  The country is tired and in a economic malaise, the campaigns of Cruz and Trump emphasize this because it's true.  The country still hasn't climbed out the recession, no matter what the WH tries to spin.  Do remember that people tend to vote their wallets, and for most American's their wallet still hurts.
  

[zxcvbob]

The Republicans will pull some kind of shenanigans again at the RNC, and will run Bush/Christie or Christie/Bush, or some other equally awful ticket -- with a campaign slogan something like "*expletive deleted*ck you, America, you have to vote for us"

[BlueStarLizzard]

The Republicans will pull some kind of shenanigans again at the RNC, and will run Bush/Christie or Christie/Bush, or some other equally awful ticket -- with a campaign slogan something like "*expletive deleted*ck you, America, you have to vote for us"

Not with Trump doing his thing. If they pull something like that, I have no doubt he'll just go his own way. It's not like he can't afford it. They can't afford to split votes like that. They have to keep up someone who can beat Trump if he decides to play his own game.

[Fly320s]

The Republicans will pull some kind of shenanigans again at the RNC, and will run Bush/Christie or Christie/Bush, or some other equally awful ticket -- with a campaign slogan something like "*expletive deleted*ck you, America, you have to vote for us"

I wondered about that, too.  How many states require the delegates from the primary voting to be given to the top vote earner?  Could those states give their votes to Christie Bush, regardless of what the vote count is?  I know some states don't require the electoral votes go to the popular vote winner during the presidential voting.

[Andiron]

I have to disagree.  There are a LOT of women that hate Hillary.  I have to give Trump credit for reviving the "Bill's a serial abuser" story.  Given the rise of the SJW's, that behavior is completely unacceptable these days.  What got swept under the rug in the 1990's is coming back to bite Hillary hard, and the "Enabler" meme is starting to stick.   Hillary's only only selling point is "I have a Vagina".  And DWS attempts to shield Hillary in the debates is failing badly, along with Hillary "hiding" from the press.   The softball questions have ended, and hard questions (Even from the Clinton News Network) are being asked.

The liberal-liberal wing of the party and the youngsters are backing Bernie.  The black vote is not that enamored of Hillary like they were for Obama, so expect both those groups to stay home in droves if Hillary is the nominee.    And both those groups turning out in record numbers were key to putting "Hope and Change" into the White House.  I don't see that happening in 2016, unless Bernie or Warren is the nominee.   The Democratic fight may be decided in SC.  If Bernie takes both Iowa and NH, then Hillary is in big trouble and it's 2008 all over again for her.  Remember, Obama didn't win by much in 2008.

Plus the R voters seem more motivated this year.  This is the year of the "Outsider" which is why Trump and Cruz have the most traction, and why Bush, Rubio, Christie, et al, can gain any traction.   And why Trump can say just a bout anything and still climb in the polls.  The pundit class is waiting for him to say something that will torpedo him, and they have pointed to several things he's said in a attempt at "Gotcha", only see it have no effect.  

I think the best debates will be once the nominees are chosen.  Any combo of Cruz/Trump vs Hillary/Bernie will be great theater.  Especially if it's Cruz.

I don't see the D's winning this year.  The country is tired and in a economic malaise, the campaigns of Cruz and Trump emphasize this because it's true.  The country still hasn't climbed out the recession, no matter what the WH tries to spin.  Do remember that people tend to vote their wallets, and for most American's their wallet still hurts.
  

This.  All of this.  Well said!

[grampster]

If the R's try and pull some crap at the convention, Trump can look at them and say that if you try that crap, I'll run 3rd party and you will lose badly and I'll not be hurt at all, especially if my campaign makes a big deal out of your crap.  Heck, he might just win in he did that.

[zxcvbob]

If the R's try and pull some crap at the convention, Trump can look at them and say that if you try that crap, I'll run 3rd party and you will lose badly and I'll not be hurt at all, especially if my campaign makes a big deal out of your crap.  Heck, he might just win in he did that.

You seem to think that they want to win.  I think they want to lose, as long as they can blame it on Tea Partiers, Trump, Ron Paul (even tho' he's not actively campaigning for anyone; I'm on his mailing list and not even getting much about Rand), Cruz, and other outsiders.

[RoadKingLarry]

If the Rs go against the primary vote pull off a convention hijack and run any combination of Christie/Bush I'd hope Trump does make a third party run. I'd vote for him in that case.
If they go full retard like that and Trump doesn't run I'd sit it out.

[MechAg94]

If the Rs go against the primary vote pull off a convention hijack and run any combination of Christie/Bush I'd hope Trump does make a third party run. I'd vote for him in that case.
If they go full retard like that and Trump doesn't run I'd sit it out.

I almost want to say that would end the party, but I am not sure.  Beginning of the end is likely. 

However, I really can't see that happening.  I think some of you just can't seem to imagine anything close to good happening in politics. 

[Andiron]

I almost want to say that would end the party, but I am not sure.  Beginning of the end is likely. 

However, I really can't see that happening.  I think some of you just can't seem to imagine anything close to good happening in politics. 

If they're that stupid,  and I'm beginning to think that's the case,  lets just get it over with.

[RoadKingLarry]

If they're that stupid,  and I'm beginning to think that's the case,  lets just get it over with.

Let's kick this pig!

[Hawkmoon]

Not with Trump doing his thing. If they pull something like that, I have no doubt he'll just go his own way. It's not like he can't afford it. They can't afford to split votes like that. They have to keep up someone who can beat Trump if he decides to play his own game.

And that person probably doesn't exist. I hear more and more people saying, "I don't much care for Donald Trump, but I'll vote for him anyway."

[MechAg94]

I think many have gotten this strange idea that one day the absolute perfect candidate will show up so they can say they voted "FOR" someone.  It will never happen.  Any candidate you can name will have warts of some kind.  These days there is this effort to make Reagan out to be a perfect God of Conservatism.  Few remember that some worried he would be too liberal coming from California.  He was generally economically conservative and solidly pro-America in foreign policy. 

[Scout26]

Yes, I remember we had one member that used to decry Reagan as not sufficiently Pro-Gun for signing FOPA '86.  However, he fails to keep in mind that that the time the 2A was not that huge of an issue for most people.  (CCW was not a "hot topic"), and the ammo purchasing requirements et al of GCA'68 were rather onerous.   FOPA was the best that could be done at that time.  (apparently hitting singles and bunting to advance the runners and score runs wasn't enough.  Home Runs each and every time is the only way to play the game.)

Also at that time The Cold War and the economy were the huge threats.   Undoing the damage Carter did, and ending the Soviet Union and the Nuclear threat were far more important at that time then 922(g)/(r).

[Fly320s]

I think many have gotten this strange idea that one day the absolute perfect candidate will show up so they can say they voted "FOR" someone.  It will never happen.  Any candidate you can name will have warts of some kind.  These days there is this effort to make Reagan out to be a perfect God of Conservatism.  Few remember that some worried he would be too liberal coming from California.  He was generally economically conservative and solidly pro-America in foreign policy. 

Does that mean we should vote for whatever candidate ends up on the R ticket?  Or whatever candidate is running against Hillary?

[Ben]

Yes, I remember we had one member that used to decry Reagan as not sufficiently Pro-Gun for signing FOPA '86.  However, he fails to keep in mind that that the time the 2A was not that huge of an issue for most people.  (CCW was not a "hot topic"), and the ammo purchasing requirements et al of GCA'68 were rather onerous.   FOPA was the best that could be done at that time.  (apparently hitting singles and bunting to advance the runners and score runs wasn't enough.  Home Runs each and every time is the only way to play the game.)

Also at that time The Cold War and the economy were the huge threats.   Undoing the damage Carter did, and ending the Soviet Union and the Nuclear threat were far more important at that time then 922(g)/(r).

I just heard David Keene on a Fox Business interview talking about the pre-FOPA problems, like entrapment by gov agents of average Joes just selling a gun from their collection. The abuse of power was pretty rampant, and he brought it up because what Obama is doing now with the unclear definition of "dealer" is setting that up all over again.

[Ben]

Another black eye for Hillary:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/19/inspector-general-clinton-emails-had-intel-from-most-secretive-classified-programs.html?intcmp=hpbt1


In other news, I don't know the details, but apparently there was a kerfuffle between Cruz and Sarah Palin, and Palin is now endorsing Trump.

[charby]

Another black eye for Hillary:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/19/inspector-general-clinton-emails-had-intel-from-most-secretive-classified-programs.html?intcmp=hpbt1


In other news, I don't know the details, but apparently there was a kerfuffle between Cruz and Sarah Palin, and Palin is now endorsing Trump.

Beat me to it, but here is a msn link to AP story, just to remove the Fox News "bias"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ig-some-emails-on-clintons-server-were-beyond-top-secret/ar-BBorhZI?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=SL5JDHP

[Ben]

Some of her released emails. Interesting that someone who continually calls the other side "disrespectful" would call Romney 'Mittens".

http://twitchy.com/2016/01/20/18-of-hillary-clintons-weirdest-most-head-scratching-emails/

[Fly320s]

WMUR, a local NH TV station, has Ol' Bernie leading in the latest poll 60-33.

http://www.wmur.com/politics/wmur-poll-sanders-soars-to-commanding-lead-over-clinton-in-new-hampshire/37513446