Author Topic: Is this the end for Trump?  (Read 17802 times)

Monkeyleg

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #125 on: October 15, 2016, 12:40:15 PM »
The only sources I can find for the child molester witness story are ultra-left websites, and I don't trust Snopes anymore. Are there any more credible sources?

brimic

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2016, 12:45:55 PM »
To put this issue to bed- If Trump did any mo0lesting, grabbing, kissing, etc... he did it as a democrat. :rofl:
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #127 on: October 15, 2016, 01:03:27 PM »
The Clintons have a long record of introducing false charges just weeks before an election, a record that goes back to Bill's campaign for governor.

As for this type of scandal, remember Herman Cain in the 2012 election? He was accused of sexual assault, and had to drop out of the race. He had lived and worked all over the country, but had never lived or worked in Chicago. But all of his accusers were from Chicago, and one lived in the same apartment building as David Axelrod, Obama's hatchet man.

These come right before an election with no time to vet the stories. The accusers waited in some cases over 30 years.

It makes the accusations pretty hard to believe.

roo_ster

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #128 on: October 15, 2016, 02:36:38 PM »
McCain and Romney were running against a charismatic candidate, with an excellent organization, whos voters would crawl over broken glass to vote for him.  Hillary is a HORRIBLE candidate!  We could have actually won this one if the primary voters didn't pick a huge turd in the form of Trump.  We tried to warn people he was unelectable, with no principles and with gutter morals. 

1. That there is some delusional thinking on par with [someone(1), somewhere] thinking Trump is an exemplar of moral rectitude and humility.

2. The Clintons are better organized and better funded than Obama 2008 or 2012. 

3. None of the other GOP POTUStential candidates had a chance in hell.  None have a clue what's at stake and none have the guts to do what's necessary to win.

4. Whoever was nominated was in for a thunderstorm of allegations of sexual impropriety that would be blasted by the MSM.  Because that is what the Dems do.  Trump is the only one to provide a defense/offense of any efficacy.








(1) Yes, fictional and a straw man when invoked....but I bet there is at least one.  Somewhere.  He must be busy, though, what with all the folk who claim to have spoken with him, only to denounce him later.
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roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #129 on: October 15, 2016, 06:22:41 PM »
The only sources I can find for the child molester witness story are ultra-left websites, and I don't trust Snopes anymore. Are there any more credible sources?
Your google is broken?


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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lupinus

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #130 on: October 16, 2016, 08:21:24 PM »
And I'm with Ben.  If a famous Billionaire was sexually assaulting (any number >/=1) woman, she/they would have been dragging him through court (or at least threatening him with court), if nothing more than to extract $$$ from him.  They would not be waiting until 3 weeks before the election to bring their charges/claims.

Meanwhile, Wikileaks shows that Clinton was selling access and the us.gov to anyone that would donate $$$ to her foundation. (*cough* Haiti, for example *cough*).  Manipulating/fixing/rigging elections, having a Public vs. Private position on every issue and then doing illegal to cover up her malfeasance (e.g. willfully destroying subpoenaed evidence), with the approval and active cooperation of the MSM.   And the hackers are doing the job that American journalists used to do, all the while being besmirched as agents of a foreign government by those very same (alleged) journalists.  Yet NONE, NOT A SINGLE ONE; of the people involved in sending or receiving those e-mails and voice-mails are denying their validity.

^This.

I find it hilarious that there is barely a peep on the things Hillary and Co. have DONE, but it's not friggin stop about the big meany things Trump has said, or the ewwy things he's said during man talk in a man zone (which most folks have likewise done as bad or worse in such settings), or supposedly (with zero evidence and downright laughably convenient timing) done as if it's the gospel friggin truth.
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mellestad

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #131 on: October 17, 2016, 01:07:24 PM »
I dunno--the Cosby stuff was kept out of the MSM for the most part, until it blew up.

I'm not saying he raped anyone--honestly I doubt he ever had to. The guy's a pig but that doesn't mean he assaulted people all the time.

Doesn't mean he didn't, though. Once people have enough money for fancy lawyers and PR firms I don't think you ever know the truth about things unless someone catches them on video with their hand in the cookie jar. (Or their hand in the p****---hawhawhaw!)

I'm not sure what Trump expected though. He's been Trump his whole life. The fact that the DNC is focusing on all this now is just good campaigning.

To be fair to the media, the homepage of every news site I checked has scandals for both Hillary and Trump on the front page. Trump's scandals are more visceral though and Hillary's are more academic. Honestly I'm surprised there's nothing worse, so far, in the email dumps. It's pretty much the kind of grey-typical-politics crap everyone at that level has.

Trump's allegations of media bias don't seem as telling when every email dump is hitting the front page. I'm surprised, to be honest, that the media's giving those things as much focus as they are since it's not even a secret they all loathe Trump. You'd have to be a Vulcan to work in media and not loathe him since he spends most of his time trash talking the industry. Media=bad is part of his platform. It's hilarious watching Fox deal with him, since they hate him too but they're obligated to take a more friendly slant on him because of their audience.

mellestad

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #132 on: October 17, 2016, 01:08:05 PM »
The Fox led debates on Wednesday should be fun, just to see the 4AM Tweets about their moderation.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #133 on: October 17, 2016, 01:37:21 PM »
Your google is broken?


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Nope. We have a witness disputing the airliner story, the family of one of the "victims" disputing her story, and now evidence coming discrediting a third.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #134 on: October 17, 2016, 01:53:58 PM »
Google airline witness

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2016, 01:59:42 PM »


To be fair to the media, the homepage of every news site I checked has scandals for both Hillary and Trump on the front page. Trump's scandals are more visceral though and Hillary's are more academic. Honestly I'm surprised there's nothing worse, so far, in the email dumps. It's pretty much the kind of grey-typical-politics crap everyone at that level has.


I would argue that most of Trump's stuff is scandalous, but most of Clinton's is criminal.

The term "scandal" as applied to Clinton by the MSM is extremely irritating to me, as several of the "scandals" would have had me in Leavenworth if I'd done them during my time in government.

ETA: I will concede that the Wikileaks stuff of the past couple of weeks has been more scandalous, but almost everything related to national security is criminal, and what is not criminal is sanctionable.
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mellestad

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #136 on: October 17, 2016, 02:19:05 PM »
I would argue that most of Trump's stuff is scandalous, but most of Clinton's is criminal.

The term "scandal" as applied to Clinton by the MSM is extremely irritating to me, as several of the "scandals" would have had me in Leavenworth if I'd done them during my time in government.

ETA: I will concede that the Wikileaks stuff of the past couple of weeks has been more scandalous, but almost everything related to national security is criminal, and what is not criminal is sanctionable.

Yea. Most "grey" stuff by powerful people would mean prison for me or you. Sucks.

The email server stuff is border line--like you said, possibly not criminal but very, very wrong. The FBI guy said as much in plain language. "We're not going to advise prosecution, but this behavior is shady as heck."---to paraphrase. I'm an IT guy and I've refused to do things far more mundane than what her team did and I'm not even public sector.

The other thing people bring up is Benghazi. I don't know about that. Even Clinton wouldn't have wanted that to happen and I wasn't ever able to understand it well enough to have an opinion about negligence or mishandling.

Those are the big two, right? Were there others? I know there's the Clinton Foundation stuff, but I don't think that's criminal, just payola.

I found one list: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/tracking-the-clinton-controversies-from-whitewater-to-benghazi/396182/

Ben

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #137 on: October 17, 2016, 03:37:53 PM »

The email server stuff is border line--like you said, possibly not criminal but very, very wrong. The FBI guy said as much in plain language. "We're not going to advise prosecution, but this behavior is shady as heck."---to paraphrase. I'm an IT guy and I've refused to do things far more mundane than what her team did and I'm not even public sector.

Well, here's the problem: Because much of it is about an email server, people, especially the MSM and bloggers, without a knowledge of laws and regulations on classified material, are always saying, "It's just emails". It's really not. Email is one vehicle where regs and laws on classified data were broken, but it's only the tip of the iceberg. Data had to get on the email server somehow, data was illegally transferred, data was left lying around, SCIF protocols were broken, the list goes on.

At the very, very, least, as one of the most minimal punishments available, Clinton should have been banned for life from holding a clearance, which would make her ineligible for the presidency.
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Monkeyleg

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Re:
« Reply #138 on: October 17, 2016, 03:44:21 PM »
Google airline witness

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I just did. I found news sites that said Trump had produced a witness. I found a left-wing site that said the guy was a serial liar and that Trump was a Nazi. I found another site that said the guy had pimped underage males. Even if the latter is true, does that mean he's not telling the truth?

roo_ster

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #139 on: October 17, 2016, 04:43:22 PM »
Thread tangent (oh the noes!)

I just heard a buddy use the term "Godwin's Flaw."  "Godwin's Flaw" would be where the (online or wherever) discussion _starts out_ with a Hitler/Nazi comparison.  Caused me to chortle a bit.
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roo_ster

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #140 on: October 17, 2016, 08:21:30 PM »
The email server stuff is border line--like you said, possibly not criminal but very, very wrong. The FBI guy said as much in plain language. "We're not going to advise prosecution, but this behavior is shady as heck."---to paraphrase. I'm an IT guy and I've refused to do things far more mundane than what her team did and I'm not even public sector.

The e-mail server stuff is nowhere near "borderline." Against government directives, she used an unsecured, private server in her own house to host her own, private e-mail system. That alone is probably actionable, for anyone other than HRC. But, then she transmitted and received classified information through that same private, unsecured server. That's criminal. Never mind what the FBI guy said -- he was following orders to make it go away. The law she violated doesn't say anything about "intent" -- it makes negligent handling of classified information a crime. Comey's description of her actions was virtually a definition of "negligence," yet he jumped from describing exactly how she had violated the law to saying no charges were warranted.

And why was Mr, FBI even making the call? The job of the FBI is to gather evidence. The decision whether or not to prosecute is made by the U.S. Attorney's office, not the FBI. (Unless, of course, you're HRC and the fix is in.)

Quote
The other thing people bring up is Benghazi. I don't know about that. Even Clinton wouldn't have wanted that to happen and I wasn't ever able to understand it well enough to have an opinion about negligence or mishandling.

She didn't care a bit what happened at Benghazi. To her it was just collateral damage. She didn't need the people who were killed, so they didn't matter. In fact, isn't that exactly what she said in the congressional hearing?

Quote
Those are the big two, right? Were there others? I know there's the Clinton Foundation stuff, but I don't think that's criminal, just payola.

You don't think official, institutionalized payola is criminal?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 04:58:21 AM by Hawkmoon »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #141 on: October 17, 2016, 08:38:08 PM »
The email server stuff is border line--like you said, possibly not criminal but very, very wrong. The FBI guy said as much in plain language. "We're not going to advise prosecution, but this behavior is shady as heck."---to paraphrase.





No, he told us the illegal stuff she and her people had done, and then said there was no intent to break the law. (How one unintentionally sets up and uses an email server, I don't know.)
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AJ Dual

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #142 on: October 17, 2016, 09:48:19 PM »
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mc28a4e6d8799a0c77a9692d7305d6bd8H2&pid=15.1


No, he told us the illegal stuff she and her people had done, and then said there was no intent to break the law. (How one unintentionally sets up and uses an email server, I don't know.)

And even if there wasn't intent, intent or a lack thereof, is in no way part of the legal threshold for prosecution either. 
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #143 on: October 17, 2016, 10:37:37 PM »
I can't remember his exact wording but something about 'no reasonable prosecutor would pursue charges". Like, no *expletive deleted*it none of them want to wind up dead from a surprise suicide.
 
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Scout26

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #144 on: October 18, 2016, 01:00:06 AM »
The thing that strikes me most about the e-mail dumps is that NO ONE on the Clinton Team is raising any Red Flags about what is going on.  NO ONE is questioning whether what they are doing is illegal, immoral, or unethical.  Everyone is concerned about "optics" and making the problems "go away". 

And here's the run down.  The E-mail server scandal broke when the House committee (and private entities using FOIA requests) where looking for documents pertaining to Benghazi (what did the President and SoS know, and when did they know it).  By using a homebrew server and NOT turning over all the emails from her time as SoS, she and her team broke federal records storage laws.  She then claimed that there was no classified info in her e-mails.  She allowed her attorney (and others) to go through said e-mails to determine what to turn over to the State Dept.  None of those people doing this "review" had any of the necessary clearances to view the classified info in said e-mails. And once a subpoena was issued by Congress for all the e-mails, her team went in and deliberately "wiped" the server and destroyed other devices.  Often with the active aid and assistance of the State Dept.

Again, it's not just that the law was broken, but that they went to great lengths to cover-up the crimes (and I won't even get into the Clinton Foundation Pay-To-Play/selling of the State Dept and the US.gov), and then to cover up the cover-ups with lies, compounded by lies, compounded by more lies.

But again.  We have quite a few of Hillary's e-mails.  Including many classified ones.   Yet, no one (other than National Review) is mentioning the dog that didn't bark. 

In all these e-mails, not one is to or from Obama.   How did the CINC communicate with his Sec. of State.  Surely, he had to be in a least one e-mail chain regarding something classified. 

Then there's the Watergate question, again which no one is asking regarding Benghazi.  What did the President know and when did he know it.   Who came up with the "Protest over a Video" story.  I will give Hillary credit for NOT going on the Sunday talk shows and preaching that lie.  (I guess she realized that if it came out as a lie, her political future was toast.)

SO that's what really scares me.   Obama at least felt somewhat constrained by the constitution and  the law (His 17 or 18 losses at the USSC notwithstanding), but Hillary will not feel any constraints.  She's been elected and byG-d she's gonna rule by executive fiat.   The word "Unconstitutional" is not in her vocabulary.   She will erase the 2A by Executive Order and make some one get arrested and have to fight their way through the courts to get their rights back.  She will by-pass and go around Congress to do what she pleases, when and how she pleases.  She and her administration will not be above doing anything illegal to cover-up any "bad optics".   Executive Privilege will cover anything and everything done in the Executive Branch, Congress and Courts (the "unfriendly ones") will be neutered and relegated to nothingness.  Queen Hillary the First will be chopping off the heads on any and all who displease her.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2016, 03:38:37 PM »
Sample size of "one", so it's worth bupkis statistically of course...

But it's been damn interesting to watch my wife go from #nevertrump after grab-them-by-the-pussy-gate, and slowly progress back to Trump as the media bias got to her... to it finally sealing the deal when she saw the first of the James O'Keefe/Project Veritas videos.

She still thinks Trump is a boob, but the dirty work of the Democratic Machine on display has left her thoroughly disgusted.
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brimic

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2016, 04:20:34 PM »


She still thinks Trump is a boob, but the dirty work of the Democratic Machine on display has left her thoroughly disgusted.

We all do, and most of us are seeing it.
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Ben

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2016, 04:39:36 PM »
We all do, and most of us are seeing it.

No thanks to the MSM.

There has been distrust of media for some decades now, but I can't but wonder if this presidential election will be a seminal moment in the death of conventional news as anything more than one big opinion page.

With all the revelations coming out, I can't remember another time when the left (Berners), the right, and much of the mainstream population in between have all been on the same page disgust-wise. In the past, the MSM has always tried to disguise their bias. This is the first time that I can remember where they are basically "loud and proud" and overtly attempting to influence an election.
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roo_ster

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2016, 07:23:44 PM »
Remember that the average oversampling of the polls is democrat plus 11.  And that in 2008 the cohort that voted bho into office over mccain was democrat plus 7.  And the poll upthread that had trump down 11 to hillary predicted bho to win by 14 in 2012 [bho ended up winning by 4].

I do not have access to the raw data or the exact methodologies being used, but i get the feeling we are being gaslighted.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Is this the end for Trump?
« Reply #149 on: October 18, 2016, 08:29:10 PM »
No thanks to the MSM.

There has been distrust of media for some decades now, but I can't but wonder if this presidential election will be a seminal moment in the death of conventional news as anything more than one big opinion page.

With all the revelations coming out, I can't remember another time when the left (Berners), the right, and much of the mainstream population in between have all been on the same page disgust-wise. In the past, the MSM has always tried to disguise their bias. This is the first time that I can remember where they are basically "loud and proud" and overtly attempting to influence an election.

IMO, it started with...

Hell, they've been doing it since the 60's at least, and it's just ramped up in intensity over the years. Each time I push it back thinking: "No, this is where it started." I can go back further.  

"Reagan is a doddering idiot that's going to cause WWIII.", and we also got a bit lucky with bobblehead Dukakis in the tank too.  And with Bush Sr. vs. Clinton they doubled-down on "It's the economy stupid." With W. they pulled out all the stops, including a lot of inflammatory and ultimately untrue narrative building about the Florida re-counts in 2000. Same in 2004, including Wallace and the MS-Word forged National Guard documents, but "wartime" with AWOT and Kerry being a sanctimonious tard won out there.

They were all in for Obama, however the "First black POTUS"-thing and his teleprompter skills was probably going to swing it even if they were impartial. So I'll call that one a draw, even though they don't deserve it.

It is indeed coming down to a message from America if Trump wins. "We hate you and distrust you all so much that we'll elect Trump if that's all we've got."

Remember that the average oversampling of the polls is democrat plus 11.  And that in 2008 the cohort that voted bho into office over mccain was democrat plus 7.  And the poll upthread that had trump down 11 to hillary predicted bho to win by 14 in 2012 [bho ended up winning by 4].

I do not have access to the raw data or the exact methodologies being used, but i get the feeling we are being gaslighted.

I've been trying to downplay it in my mind for weeks, just to make sure I'm not deceiving myself, but I can't shake that hunch either.

Ultimately, the problem is that it's what the MSM would probably do and say either way. Clinton is winning, they'll crow about that. If Trump is winning, or it's close, they'll claim she's winning to try and vote suppress through false narrative and "inevitability".

Whatever else happens, the possibility the MSM's back is broken, and they never get the credibility back should Trump win is probably the one single biggest upside in the whole thing.
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