The Gun Control Bandwagon

[Pb]

And a friend just sent me a text that Trump has directed ATF to ban bump stocks and rate increase devices...

It's starting...

 

[MechAg94]

https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-19-its-all-theater-florida-high-school-shooting-survivor-caught-on-video-rehearsing-scripted-lines-coached-by-camera-man.html#

Ted Nugent posted this on his facebook page. 

Saw another facebook post saying the boy is a high school graduate from CA and works for CNN.  So not sure what the hell is going on with that beyond it being all faked.

[Ben]

Here's my prediction. No money bet on this, but I'm guessing three things will happen (or "they" will attempt to make them happen) which the administration will go along with:

1) Bump stocks etc. gone. I noticed the Trump administration has been careful to word it as "banning devices that turn LEGAL guns into illegal guns. My belief is that they are doing that to protect ARs, etc. as legal items. As I mentioned earlier, throwing the grabbers a "gimme" while trying to protect the rifles themselves.

2) Purchase age for everything changed to 21. How much this affects rights I suppose is linked to the exact language, such as "purchase" vs "possess".

3) "Fix" background checks. I have no idea what this means, but it's being thrown around a lot from somehow making them more "thorough" (whatever that means) to including "enhancements" for investigation of mental conditions. I would not be surprised, however, to see some additional "checks" (perhaps only annoying, perhaps bad) added to NICS with the support of the administration.

[Sideways_8]

Fix background checks? The Sutherland Springs shooter (not bothering to look up his name) was able to purchase a firearm because the ball was dropped on actually entering the information. How is a "fixed" background check going to solve that?

For rate increasing devices, is that just bump stocks? Or is it belt loops, string, Jerry Miculek's trigger finger, etc?

[dogmush]

3) "Fix" background checks. I have no idea what this means, but it's being thrown around a lot from somehow making them more "thorough" (whatever that means) to including "enhancements" for investigation of mental conditions. I would not be surprised, however, to see some additional "checks" (perhaps only annoying, perhaps bad) added to NICS with the support of the administration.

I think they're going to try, but the issue is we already have "adjudicated mentally defective" as a prohibitor.  Moving the posts from something that requires a court to something that is the opinion of a doctor leaves whatever they come up with ripe for challenge and being overturned by the courts.  It might take a couple years but there are plenty of liberty groups and lawyers that would eat that up for lunch.

They could make the compulsory mental health determination -> adjudication process faster and fix the reporting to NICS part, but I don't really think they can do any of the various "a doctor says you might not be stable so no guns!" plans I've seen bandied about.  For one thing that would require Mental Health professionals to make simple declarative statements about their patients, which is something they seem loath to ever do.  

[RoadKingLarry]

Also hearing calls to fix the "gun show loophole".

[Ben]

For rate increasing devices, is that just bump stocks? Or is it belt loops, string, Jerry Miculek's trigger finger, etc?

It's because of this that I don't mind (well, I mind, but you know what I mean) the Trump admin focusing on bump stocks. It's a technique that is repeatable in many different ways, but the actual items "bump stocks" are a ginormous hoplophobe bogeyman right now as one of the most evil devices ever created by man. If bump stocks are banned, the antis will think that they have won a lot more than they actually have.

[cordex]

It's because of this that I don't mind (well, I mind, but you know what I mean) the Trump admin focusing on bump stocks. It's a technique that is repeatable in many different ways, but the actual items "bump stocks" are a ginormous hoplophobe bogeyman right now as one of the most evil devices ever created by man. If bump stocks are banned, the antis will think that they have won a lot more than they actually have.

Depends on the terminology used to ban them.  Could easily be far too broad.

[Ben]

Depends on the terminology used to ban them.  Could easily be far too broad.

This is true. Though in CA, every time they had what they thought was broad and definitive language, someone created a workaround within 24 hours. 

[Perd Hapley]

Fix background checks? The Sutherland Springs shooter (not bothering to look up his name) was able to purchase a firearm because the ball was dropped on actually entering the information. How is a "fixed" background check going to solve that?

I don't know the details of the "Fix NICS" bill, but I thought it strengthened requirements on reporting from different agencies and departments, and I think this was done by penalizing failures to report. Of course, we know how good the government is at punishing their own people, when they break the rules.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't know about you guys, but some of these weapons don't look all that destroyed to me.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27412/onelessgun-nbc-highlights-people-destroying-their-paul-bois

[dogmush]

I don't know about you guys, but some of these weapons don't look all that destroyed to me.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27412/onelessgun-nbc-highlights-people-destroying-their-paul-bois

Some folks at NBC are being trolled.....

[Sideways_8]

"As I see more and more AR-15s being part of mass shootings, I don't want to be a part of that," said Mike Russel.

Well I guess I better destroy my AR-15 before it becomes rabid.

[T.O.M.]

From what I'm hearing, the "fix NICS" may prove interesting.  There's talk about adding "mentally ill" people to the prohibited list.  Now, I don't know how that would work out, but I'm guessing that proposals will include requirements for doctors treating a patient to report the treatment to NICS, and that's where the fun will begin.  The idea of creating a registry of people seeking mental health services for use by law enforcement is going to send mental health advocates into a fit.  There will be HIPPA issues all over the place.  I can see a bunch of lawyers getting rich on this one.

[MechAg94]

The issue I have heard with "FIX NICS" is that is creates incentives to the report to the point that states will be reporting everyone and everything that is even close to being prohibited and there is still no good process for 1) finding out you are prohibited without illegally attempting to buy a firearms, or 2) getting your name off the prohibited list if falsely reported. 

[MechAg94]

Saw another facebook post saying the boy is a high school graduate from CA and works for CNN.  So not sure what the hell is going on with that beyond it being all faked.

I heard on Rush or somewhere that the rumors that those weren't actual high school kids were not true.  They were coached and such to say what they said, but they were supposedly actual students.

[dogmush]

The issue I have heard with "FIX NICS" is that is creates incentives to the report to the point that states will be reporting everyone and everything that is even close to being prohibited and there is still no good process for 1) finding out you are prohibited without illegally attempting to buy a firearms, or 2) getting your name off the prohibited list if falsely reported. 

It's easy.  Just never seek any mental health treatment for anything, ever.  Then you won't be falsely reported.

[Ben]

The issue I have heard with "FIX NICS" is that is creates incentives to the report to the point that states will be reporting everyone and everything that is even close to being prohibited and there is still no good process for 1) finding out you are prohibited without illegally attempting to buy a firearms, or 2) getting your name off the prohibited list if falsely reported. 

The "mental health" thing is kinda scary. As per the stroy below, CA bonehead politicians want to push the CA restraining order crap on the whole country. Which basically has few checks and balances for false reporting. If somebody doesn't like you, they can make a call and LE is forced to respond. Have fun making your way through the courts after that.

https://www.independent.com/news/2018/feb/21/wake-parkland-shooting-rep-carbajal-urges-action-g/

[slingshot]

Normal people generally can't afford to "make their way through the courts" for principles.  If the CA law were made nationwide, there would be a lot of wait and see what develops. 

I will wait to see the "enhancements" being recommended to the NICs check.  Clearly mental health reporting is necessary IF they were legally adjudicated as unfit.  The HIPPA thing will be very important and I foresee a big loss in privacy coming our way. 

I see the Age 21 thing as a possible.  As mentioned, the wording will be very important as there are thousands of young people who live in the country that still hunt (alone) and commonly plink with firearms.  I see the possibility of some sort of legislative gun control action to be part of funding and building the wall. 

[freakazoid]

The 21 years old thing would have to be for purchase. No way they would ban mere possession as that would directly affect the military. Surely they wouldn't come up with any ill-thought out laws that would affect the military in regards to firearms...

[Fly320s]

The 21 years old thing would have to be for purchase. No way they would ban mere possession as that would directly affect the military. Surely they wouldn't come up with any ill-thought out laws that would affect the military in regards to firearms...

The government/military/law enforcement/other special people would be exempt, just as they already are.  They get to have new machine guns and explosives, unlike us peons.

[cordex]

The government/military/law enforcement/other special people would be exempt, just as they already are.  They get to have new machine guns and explosives, unlike us peons.

Exactly what I was going to say.

[Ben]

The MSM propoganda is working. One of the students at Trump's "listening session" is repeating the CNN lie about the guy who bought [narrator: "he didn't"] an AR-15 in five minutes.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/02/21/right-on-cue-chris-cuomos-big-lie-made-it-all-the-way-to-the-whs-school-shooting-listening-session-video/

[freakazoid]

The government/military/law enforcement/other special people would be exempt, just as they already are.  They get to have new machine guns and explosives, unlike us peons.

Lautenberg Act

[Fly320s]

Lautenberg Act

I'm familiar with that, but how does that relate to changing the age of purchasing?