Kerosene Shop Heater

[Ben]

Bought myself one of these yesterday at Tractor Supply:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/master-80000-btu-kerosene-forced-air-heater-mh-80t-kfa

It's a really nice shop heater. I tried it out this morning. It wasn't that cold - 35 outside and 47 in the shop, but man did it heat the ~1900 sq ft, ~19' to the crest of the roof, shop in a hurry. Got it to 65 in about 15 minutes. It has a thermostat and auto ignite, so I can set it to hold temp and just come on when it needs to.

Not very loud either. About as loud as a cutting torch. It also can use K-1 Kerosene, diesel (not dyed), fuel oil, and Jet-A, so pretty versatile.

The only cons are:

#1 It needs electricity for the igniter and thermostat, which is a pain for a power outage. I can always plug it into a genny, but then you have the generator running. I guess I'd just have to run it and the genny until I got the shop hot, then shut it all down and start them up again when it starts getting cold. I'll have to see what the draw is. It might even be able to run on a UPS.

#2 Kerosene is ridiculously expensive. I had no idea it was so high now. Forty ducats for five gallons at Tractor Supply. There's supposed to be a gas station in my region that has a kerosene pump, so I might try there. I'm sure it's cheaper than at the store. Else I might just run diesel in it and just do extra venting for the smell. The K-1 doesn't smell at all. This thing is supposed to run at 9 hours per gallon, so it does sip the fuel.

I'm kinda thinking I might want to get one of the kerosene home heaters now for emergencies, or just for if it drops to the single digits to supplement my central heating.

[French G.]

K-1 is $3.99 at the pump here.

[Brad Johnson]

Four bucks a gallon for kerosene? 

Brad

[charby]

I hate the smell of burning kero/diesel heaters. Surprised you didn't put in a wood stove since it sounds like you have access to a lot of firewood.

[RoadKingLarry]

I went with a forced air propane heater. Much cleaner burning and no stink.
I used to have a wood stove but while I could heat the 1800sq ft shop to reasonably comfortable temps it had drawbacks. It would take an hour or better to get comfortable and then I'd hate to leave it burning if I had to bail. Kind of a waste of wood.
The propane heater runs off a 40# bottle and I can direct the airflow to the area of the shop I'm working in and have pretty much instant warmth in that area. Then when I'm done I just shut it off and leave.

 I'm contemplating either another 40# bottle or maybe a 100#.

[Ben]

I hate the smell of burning kero/diesel heaters. Surprised you didn't put in a wood stove since it sounds like you have access to a lot of firewood.

Again, this one has zero odor with the K-1. Don't know if it will be the same with diesel. I was contemplating the wood stove, and it would be a good use for all the crappy Russian olive, but I was concerned with the same thing RKL ran into with his. This way I can fire the heater up and have a warm shop in ten minutes, and just repeat if I end up using the shop several times in a day. Plus I can carry it to the garage or well house or wherever for a quick warm up.

[charby]

Again, this one has zero odor with the K-1. Don't know if it will be the same with diesel. I was contemplating the wood stove, and it would be a good use for all the crappy Russian olive, but I was concerned with the same thing RKL ran into with his. This way I can fire the heater up and have a warm shop in ten minutes, and just repeat if I end up using the shop several times in a day. Plus I can carry it to the garage or well house or wherever for a quick warm up.

Russian olive is a great firewood, similar to ash, elm or oak. Going to burn fairly slow.

[Ben]

Russian olive is a grean firewood, similar to ash, elm or oak. Going to burn fairly slow.

Yeah, everyone here tells me it's poor though. Maybe similar names for different woods. Infuriating considering how much I have. I might mix a little of it with hardwood in the wood stove in the house. I had the chimney sweep out a few weeks ago and he shocked me by telling me the wood stove here is like a $2000 stove that's really good at fully burning wood and that I might as well mix the free stuff in.

I'll give it a try, but if it smells or causes problems, I'm just going to save it all for the backyard fire ring and/or throw it on the quail habitat piles (which the previous owner was using the branches for) to make them bigger.

[Nick1911]

I found kerosene at a quicktrip here at the pump.  It was about $3 per gallon if I recall correctly.

Just bought a cheapie woodstove for the barn.  It was on clearance at Menards, $149 plus an 11% store credit rebate.

[Ben]

To continue thread veer, I did some more interwebz studying on the Russian olive. Apparently what makes it okay/good wood vs crappy wood is if you season it about twice as long as average. People are talking 2-3 years. Then it apparently doesn't smell, and it burns hot, although fast.

Woodworkers seem to like it, and it makes some beautiful pieces from the pictures I saw, though I guess it's somewhat difficult to work, or at least difficult to find good parts of the tree to work with.

For $3, I'd continue to use kerosene and skip the diesel. I need to call around here. It's surprisingly difficult to get a lead on some locally outside of the expensive canned stuff at the farm supply stores.

[RoadKingLarry]

Yeah, everyone here tells me it's poor though. Maybe similar names for different woods. Infuriating considering how much I have. I might mix a little of it with hardwood in the wood stove in the house. I had the chimney sweep out a few weeks ago and he shocked me by telling me the wood stove here is like a $2000 stove that's really good at fully burning wood and that I might as well mix the free stuff in.

I'll give it a try, but if it smells or causes problems, I'm just going to save it all for the backyard fire ring and/or throw it on the quail habitat piles (which the previous owner was using the branches for) to make them bigger.

For your russian olive, can you post a pic of the bark and leaves?
Let it dry. At least to 20% moisture content and lower is preferred.The more recent/modern "EPA Certified" stoves do great with dry firewood.
Cut it, split it and stack it and let it season for at least a year. I like to let my oak woods season for 2 years. Ash and Hackberry are good at 1 year.
Also, what brand/model of stove do you have?

[charby]

Yeah, everyone here tells me it's poor though. Maybe similar names for different woods. Infuriating considering how much I have. I might mix a little of it with hardwood in the wood stove in the house. I had the chimney sweep out a few weeks ago and he shocked me by telling me the wood stove here is like a $2000 stove that's really good at fully burning wood and that I might as well mix the free stuff in.

I'll give it a try, but if it smells or causes problems, I'm just going to save it all for the backyard fire ring and/or throw it on the quail habitat piles (which the previous owner was using the branches for) to make them bigger.

I had a little 3 weeks stint in Montana over a decade ago, local folks kept trying to convince me that conifers (softwood) was a better stove firewood that deciduous (hardwood). Yes pine/spruce has higher BTUs, but less stove stoking with hardwoods.

[Ben]

For your russian olive, can you post a pic of the bark and leaves?
Let it dry. At least to 20% moisture content and lower is preferred.The more recent/modern "EPA Certified" stoves do great with dry firewood.
Cut it, split it and stack it and let it season for at least a year. I like to let my oak woods season for 2 years. Ash and Hackberry are good at 1 year.
Also, what brand/model of stove do you have?

I'm already bundled in for the day, but will grab some images in the morning. I have this stove, but the leg model with the blower fan:

https://www.hearthsidedistributors.com/Catalog/Napoleon-1400-Medium-Pedestal-Wood-Stove

[Ben]

I had a little 3 weeks stint in Montana over a decade ago, local folks kept trying to convince me that conifers (softwood) was a better stove firewood that deciduous (hardwood). Yes pine/spruce has higher BTUs, but less stove stoking with hardwoods.

I like pine in the mix, but to use as kind of a "starter". Get a quick hot fire and coals going, then throw on some hardwood for the slow burn and consistent temperature. I'll have to figure out this new EPA stove though. The last wood burner I used was an old Franklin stove that was more like having a fire pit inside the house. 

[RoadKingLarry]

This is the one I have.

https://www.heatilatorecochoice.com/products/ws22-wood-stove

Going into my 9th season with it as my primary heat source.  I haven't even lit the pilot on my central gas furnace in 4-5 years now.

[RoadKingLarry]

I like pine in the mix, but to use as kind of a "starter". Get a quick hot fire and coals going, then throw on some hardwood for the slow burn and consistent temperature. I'll have to figure out this new EPA stove though. The last wood burner I used was an old Franklin stove that was more like having a fire pit inside the house. 

The way I run mine with good, well seasoned hardwood is as it is coming up to temp I begin to throttle the damper and when it gets to my optimum stove top temp I basically shut the damper and let it run. I've had 8+ hour burn times and still have a serious bed of coals in the morning to start the new fire.

[charby]

I like pine in the mix, but to use as kind of a "starter". Get a quick hot fire and coals going, then throw on some hardwood for the slow burn and consistent temperature. I'll have to figure out this new EPA stove though. The last wood burner I used was an old Franklin stove that was more like having a fire pit inside the house. 

You might be surprised how efficient your EPA stove is and how long it holds heat.

[K Frame]

How often do you expect to have power outages?

Those salamander heaters do a good job, but make sure that you have carbon monoxide detectors. You should have those no matter what fuel type you're running.

Those things will also run home heating oil. You might have a better local supply of that.

[Ben]

So here's the bark, leaves, and nasty-ass thorns on the Russian olive. The thorns seem to mostly go away on the older growth, but are absolutely nasty on younger limbs and new shoots that have to be trimmed back over the growing season.

[Ben]

How often do you expect to have power outages?

Those salamander heaters do a good job, but make sure that you have carbon monoxide detectors. You should have those no matter what fuel type you're running.

Those things will also run home heating oil. You might have a better local supply of that.

Got the CO detectors. My propane guy sells heating oil, so I might check the prices there as well.

On the outages,  I guess not as much as I would have expected. Certainly less than I experienced CA, though given the location and weather,  I would have expected more. I've had a few instances where it has blipped out for less than a minute - just enough to have to reset clocks, etc.

Interestingly, one of the first things  I did was have my electrician install a lockout on the breaker panel so I could switch to genny power for the water pump (and heater in the Winter) if needed. I had to educate him on what the lockout was, then he had to do the same to his supplier. The only reason they were able to look it up was because there was an old guy that worked there who my electrician said, "remembered Y2K." They just don't have a call for lockouts or transfer switches (they of course knew about transfer switches because of solar), which I guess is positive news on how reliable the power grid is here.

[K Frame]

Talk to your guy to see if he has a small bulk tank you can store 100 or sogallons.

Heating oil and kero start to gel around 10 F so you'll need to take that into account.

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[Ben]

Talk to your guy to see if he has a small bulk tank you can store 100 or sogallons.

Heating oil and kero start to gel around 10 F so you'll need to take that into account.

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Ah, that's good to know on the kerosene - I wasn't thinking about gel problems with that. It's stored in the shop so should be okay. I assume the heating oil either does a Winter blend or else you do an additive like with diesel?

[K Frame]

Not sure. Talk to your guy. Most places in the country oil tanks are either underground or in the house in the basement so they are protected from the worst of the Winter weather. I don't know about Idaho.

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[charby]

So here's the bark, leaves, and nasty-ass thorns on the Russian olive. The thorns seem to mostly go away on the older growth, but are absolutely nasty on younger limbs and new shoots that have to be trimmed back over the growing season.

looks like Russian/autumn olive to me. Very invasive shrub.

[Ben]

looks like Russian/autumn olive to me. Very invasive shrub.

You're tellin' me! 

If it ends up burning okay, I'm going to happily chop down a couple trees a year and hit the stumps with 2-4-D, because guys say if you don't poison the trunk, you'll already have a new tree growing by Spring, and these things supposedly grow 6-8'/year.