Author Topic: Turn in your gas stoves  (Read 3749 times)

Kingcreek

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,866
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2020, 01:02:05 PM »
This article popped up in my news feed this morning, and it is relevant to the discussion. It makes me think about having the vent fan run every single time we are using the stove.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/5/7/21247602/gas-stove-cooking-indoor-air-pollution-health-risks
Thanks for that motivation.
We replaced our 23 year old Jenn Aire with downdraft vent last fall with a new propane Samsung and lost the downdraft in the process. I plan to vent up using the also new Samsung microwave over range unit but didn’t want to open up the wall and vent out in the cold weather. It is on an outside wall but will vent up high onto our covered porch. I think living on Covid time and better weather I could fold that into the covid project list since illanoy will be one of the last states to reopen.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,607
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2020, 04:11:04 PM »
And guess that's burning in my living room right now?

Floppies?
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Jim147

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,306
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2020, 05:01:47 PM »
😳
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40,445
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2020, 11:04:42 PM »
If I could have justified the money when I had to replace my stove back in 2016 I would have gone with an induction cooktop model. But, the cheapest induction range I could find was over $3,000.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Jim147

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,306
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2020, 11:19:55 PM »
Gas is still better. I have gas at the house and induction in the cabin.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,930
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2020, 11:36:11 PM »
The oven I could care less as long as it will maintain a consistent temperature.
98% of my stove top cooking is with cast iron. I will not use a cast iron skillet on electric or induction. That's my line in the sand, that's my hill.
 [ar15]
 =D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

sumpnz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,401
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2020, 12:10:32 AM »
They can have my Bluestar 48" Platinum range when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.  Spent as much on it as the (used) minivan.

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,564
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2020, 08:17:01 PM »
The oven I could care less as long as it will maintain a consistent temperature.
98% of my stove top cooking is with cast iron. I will not use a cast iron skillet on electric or induction. That's my line in the sand, that's my hill.
 [ar15]
 =D

I prefer gas, but an electric range came with the house, I have no problems using cast iron and an electric range. When it poops the bed, I will replace it with a gas range and oven. Also need to pipe gas to the kitchen too. Easily done, have a 1" gas line into the house that runs the length of the basement since I have a gas clothes dryer on the far side of the basement from the meter.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,825
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2023, 07:44:23 PM »
The Biden administration says hi

Quote
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is considering a ban on gas stoves as concerns surrounding indoor air pollutants from the appliances continue to rise, according to reports.

Bloomberg reported that the agency plans to act on the appliances because the pollutants can cause respiratory and health issues.

"This is a hidden hazard," agency commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. told Bloomberg. "Any option is on the table. Products that can’t be made safe can be banned."

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

bedlamite

  • Hold my beer and watch this!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,429
  • Ack! PLBTTPHBT!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2023, 07:54:04 PM »
But wait, there's more

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports

If this starts to get any traction I may have to pick up a spare stove.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,908
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2023, 08:06:12 PM »
Yes, this is one more go at greenies killing people and not caring. Or intentionally. Ban gas stoves. Ban small engines for generators and saws like Cali has. Maybe ban white gas and small LP cylinders. Next we make the grid super unreliable and resist all efforts at stable capacity growth. Then people can starve, freeze or report to a government center for aid. Or be me, I got gifted a wood cook stove and still have a functioning chimney for one.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,924
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2023, 09:11:51 PM »
The Biden administration says hi

Gas stove ban 'on the table' for federal agency: reports
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission consider ban on gas stoves because of harm pollutants cause on respiratory and other health issues.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gas-stove-ban-table-federal-agency-reports

IF gas stoves create enough harmful pollutants to cause illness (which I very much doubt), it's only because their previous green weenie regulations have made new houses so airtight that new houses today, instead of just breathing naturally, have to be equipped with mechanical, whole-house ventilation systems.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,515
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2023, 09:01:58 AM »
So are they going to try to ban fire places?  If gas stoves cause harmful pollutants, I am sure a fire place would do the same. 

I don't have a fire place.  I saw a video recently on a portable propane heater I liked.  I may have to go ahead and get that. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,930
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2023, 11:11:40 AM »
So are they going to try to ban fire places?  If gas stoves cause harmful pollutants, I am sure a fire place would do the same. 

I don't have a fire place.  I saw a video recently on a portable propane heater I liked.  I may have to go ahead and get that.

They (the EPA) is working on it.
https://www.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/understanding-residential-wood-heater-rules

It almost seem like "they" really do want us peasants living (and dying) in the cold and dark.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40,445
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2023, 12:01:56 PM »
"It almost seem like "they" really do want us peasants living (and dying) in the cold and dark."

How else can mother earth gaia be saved but by destroying the parasites that infest her goodness?
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,564
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2023, 12:27:57 PM »
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

I live in a town of 25k and we can have extensive electrical power outages due to even if a minor weather event takes out one of the transmission lines into town. I live 7 miles from a NG generating station, windmills everywhere, but it doesn't take much to break the grid.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Perd Hapley

  • Radicalized since 1776
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59,758
  • beep/bop/boop
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM »
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

Of course not. That would be gross.

Funny how our ancestors cooked over fire for thousands of years, and managed to survive the experience. They must have had much more advanced technology and medical know-how than we do now. I mean, hey, they even knew what women were.
I do not own a boat. I still have all my guns, cuz this is America.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,930
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2023, 01:42:36 PM »
Of course not. That would be gross.

Funny how our ancestors cooked over fire for tens of thousands of years, and managed to survive the experience. They must have had much more advanced technology and medical know-how than we do now. I mean, hey, they even knew what women were.

FTFY
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,515
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2023, 02:03:10 PM »
I'm starting this think these policy makers never lived outside a major metro area.

I live in a town of 25k and we can have extensive electrical power outages due to even if a minor weather event takes out one of the transmission lines into town. I live 7 miles from a NG generating station, windmills everywhere, but it doesn't take much to break the grid.
That is certainly the case at my parents house.  My Dad has a generator, but he has a propane burner system set up in the fire place. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40,445
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2023, 06:57:55 AM »
That is certainly the case at my parents house.  My Dad has a generator, but he has a propane burner system set up in the fire place. 

Jesus Christ... your Dad may be the single most evil, earth-hating person to ever live!
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41,719
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2023, 11:29:21 AM »
Besides the fact that a bunch of electricity is created through natural gas (dump your gas stove, get an electric stove, and power it with electricity created from NG), I distinctly remember in the 90s' the parents of these boneheads were all telling us to dump our electric stoves for gas in order to save the planet.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Nick1911

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,264
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2023, 11:46:45 AM »
Besides the fact that a bunch of electricity is created through natural gas (dump your gas stove, get an electric stove, and power it with electricity created from NG), I distinctly remember in the 90s' the parents of these boneheads were all telling us to dump our electric stoves for gas in order to save the planet.

The latter makes good sense.  Burning fuel to create mechanical energy is efficiency bound by the carnot cycle.  A typical power plant only turns about 40% of it's heat energy into usable power - the rest is waste heat.  That's not because power plants suck, it's inherent to the physics of heat engines.  I bet that a gas stove has better heat transfer than 40%.  Any electric resistance heat is rather inefficient.  My old gas water heater is only 60% efficient, but that beats an electric in terms of fuel burned for heat.

*Heat pumps change this equation.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41,719
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2023, 01:32:15 PM »
The latter makes good sense. 

I agree with that. The argument in the 90s made some sense. It's just fascinating to me how the current generation of enviros is so into electricity (too often having zero idea regarding how it's created). Without a ton of nuclear, there is no way for us to currently run everything on electricity that the modern enviros want us to run on electricity.

And of course part of this most recent tantrum is the study showing gas stoves cause brain damage. How many of these people have gas water heaters and gas furnaces? I know that in hippie coastal CA, almost every home is heated with gas.  I understand there is a big heat pump push there now though. Which, for the CA coastal climate actually makes some sense - the temp variations are pretty much in the heat pump sweet spot.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,825
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2023, 01:38:01 PM »
Hmmm, cook dinner or charge the car?
California: hahahahahahahaha
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40,445
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2023, 01:45:26 PM »
"I bet that a gas stove has better heat transfer than 40%."

Multiple studies claim that gas stoves top out right at 40%, electric coil stoves hit about 70%, and induction units hit the high 80s.

But, that's only the "burner to pot to food" part of the efficiency spectrum.

The other end of it is the production end, and in that gas wins hands down.

I'd really like to have a gas stove, but it's simply not available in my community and I don't have anywhere to put gas bottles, so I deal with electric.

I've got a gas top stove and I like it, but it's weird cooking on it. It took me a LONG time to get used to how it functions, even if it is a lot easier to keep clean.

About 18 months ago I picked up an induction burner from Amazon.

Holy hell is that thing brilliant. Unbelievably fast to boil water and the precise temperature control that it gives me is fantastic.

When I replaced my stove back in 2016 I briefly considered a unit with a full induction cooktop... until I saw the price. Four to six times what my current stove cost. Nope.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.