War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[JTHunter]

We don't want a Russian or Chinese military presence on our borders do we?

They are both already within our borders. 

[Angel Eyes]

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1723519219550302461

[Pb]

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1723519219550302461

If the Ukrainians hadn't been fighting back fiercely, Russia would be busily genociding them them...again... and importing more Muslims and ethnic Russians to replace them... again.

I don't know what kind of end of the war they will have to accept, but denouncing them for fighting back doesn't make sense.

If the USA was being invaded by a genocidal foreign power, we wouldn't be saying this sort of thing about ourselves.

[K Frame]

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1723519219550302461

Musk is a *expletive deleted*ing idiot.

[K Frame]

Neither Obama or Trump really had much of a foreign policy.   Biden kinda does.  But the last potus with a real foreign "policy" was HW Bush.  W developed a policy of killing Islamic terrorists after 9/11,  but not too much beyond that.

Tripping down the stairs while on a state visit isn't foreign policy...

[zahc]

That being said, it is not clear to me the benefit of the USA remaining in NATO

The benefit is obvious... benefit to Europe, that is. It's so warmongering Europe can pursue aggressive foreign policies that further their interest, with the assurance of US support. They get to benefit from our military, without having to pay for that capability themselves.

Europe as a whole has been fighting itself for the past 1000 years. Early America was smart enough to leave it behind. Would that contemporary, globalist America were half as smart.

[Ben]

Interesting breakdown of who is giving what form of aid to Ukraine.



https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-233b-in-ukraine-aid/

[WLJ]

These kind of claims are notoriously hard to to confirm particularly when there's propaganda value in them but here it is

Ukrainian sniper claims new world record after 'picking off Russian soldier from 2.36 miles away using "Lord of the Horizon" gun'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12770127/Ukrainian-sniper-claims-new-world-record-picking-Russian-soldier-2-36-miles-away-using-Lord-Horizon-gun.html

[Ben]

These kind of claims are notoriously hard to to confirm particularly where there's propaganda value in them but here it is

Ukrainian sniper claims new world record after 'picking off Russian soldier from 2.36 miles away using "Lord of the Horizon" gun'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12770127/Ukrainian-sniper-claims-new-world-record-picking-Russian-soldier-2-36-miles-away-using-Lord-Horizon-gun.html

Is his brother a pilot? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[HankB]

These kind of claims are notoriously hard to to confirm particularly where there's propaganda value in them but here it is

Ukrainian sniper claims new world record after 'picking off Russian soldier from 2.36 miles away using "Lord of the Horizon" gun'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12770127/Ukrainian-sniper-claims-new-world-record-picking-Russian-soldier-2-36-miles-away-using-Lord-Horizon-gun.html

Fire enough rounds at long - OK, extremely long - range with a reasonably accurate rifle that will put its rounds in the general vicinity of your target, and eventually you'll connect.

[dogmush]

Fire enough rounds at long - OK, extremely long - range with a reasonably accurate rifle that will put its rounds in the general vicinity of your target, and eventually you'll connect.

That stratagey requires the target to stand pretty still and exposed until you connect.  It has been my experience that folks with bullets impacting in their general vicinity stay neither still, nor exposed.

I'm with Ben, as much as Ukraine has used propaganda in this war, I'll need real evidence of any claim of unusual prowess, not just fuzzy scopecam of an undisclosed location.

[HankB]

That stratagey requires the target to stand pretty still and exposed until you connect.  It has been my experience that folks with bullets impacting in their general vicinity stay neither still, nor exposed.

Of  course. But over time in a war, if you're careful and don't get overconfident, you'll have more than one opportunity to try and pick off an enemy way out there, and the odds are you'll eventually hit someone with your first shot. Even if you don't hit the officer you're aiming for, hitting his adjutant two steps away still counts.

[Ron]

I'm going to put this here for those that are still casting about trying to make sense of the geopolitical situation. If you've watched the Mearshimer video I posted early on in this discussion, you might find the critique of his position interesting. It's a short book review of On 'Sub-Imperial Power' (by Arnaud Bertrand).

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/11/on-sub-imperial-power-by-arnaud-bertrand.html#more

[Ron]

Another interesting read from a link in the comments section of the above review.

https://pamho.medium.com/the-uniparty-and-cowboy-war-1689568759ae

[MechAg94]

Sacrificing Ukraine | The Russian army disillusioned - Douglas Macgregor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-V2dn4Jss

A bit more of a pessimistic view of things in Ukraine than I see from the pro-Ukrainian videos. 

[Ben]

So I guess we're at threat level "Approve more money for Ukraine, or we're going to start sending US troops there to fight". Pretty bold statements. The US politicians with hands in the Ukraine cookie jar must be getting some big time extortion threats from the oligarchs.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/12/07/elon-musk-wanted-confirmation-from-tucker-carlson-that-secdef-lloyd-austin-really-said-this-n2390603

[WLJ]

Update on the leak story
Anyone got a rope handy?

FBI make arrest in Massachusetts after suspected leaker of top secret Pentagon files identified online
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11969873/Identity-man-responsible-Pentagon-secret-documents-leak.html

Update

The Air Force has disciplined 15 members of the Air National Guard after a 'lack of supervision' allowed Jack Texeira to share hundreds of classified documents on the social media platform Discord.

Jack Texeira, a first class airman with the Massachusetts Air National Guard, was accused of leaking the highly classified military documents from the 102nd Intelligence Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base.

The April disclosure was described as 'one of the biggest leaks of US intelligence' material in history. Texeira, who worked as a cyber defense operations journeyman, considered a low-ranking job, was charged with six counts of retaining and transmitting classified information.

An internal investigation revealed a 'lack of supervision' and a 'culture of complacency' in the massive classified documents leak that took place, the Washington Post reported.

On Monday, the Air Force Inspector General reported that multiple officials intentionally failed to take required action on his Texeira's suspicious behavior.

Air Force disciplines 15 members of Air National Guard after 'lack of supervision' allowed airman Jack Texeira to share hundreds of classified documents on Discord
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12852155/Air-Force-disciplines-15-members-Air-National-Guard-lack-supervision-allowed-airman-Jack-Texeira-share-hundreds-classified-documents-Discord.html

[MechAg94]

An internal investigation revealed a 'lack of supervision' and a 'culture of complacency' in the massive classified documents leak that took place, the Washington Post reported.

Yeah, yeah, we already knew they worked for the govt.

[Hawkmoon]

The Air Force took the intelligence mission from the 102nd after Teixeira's leaks were discovered and the group´s mission remains reassigned to other units.

So they removed the unit's commanding officer and they removed the unit's mission -- is there still a unit and, if so, what are those airmen and airwomen doing while they have no mission?

[Ben]

$200 million more in weapons from our stockpiles, which seem to be getting concerningly low, considering stuff going on in the rest of the world.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-announces-two-hundred-million-dollars-additional-military-aid-ukraine-zelenskyy-visit-white-house

[Jim147]

I would say the meeting was over but I can't find a link to the story now. Councilman drops two grenades in meeting. May have been fake but looked real to me.

[charby]

Is it going to be a good thing if Russia wins?

I know people are voicing concerns about the money being sent over there. I also think people forget that Ukraine is also one of the most fertile regions of the world with like 30% of the worlds black soil.

Black soil, think of Iowa, Illinois, Soutern Minnesota in terms of soil productively.

Lack of food and energy causes wars. 

[cordex]

Is it going to be a good thing if Russia wins?

Nope.

But I'm also not convinced it is going to be a good thing if Russia loses.

[Ron]

What he said ^

[dogmush]

At this point, with the lines semi stabilized, both sides really want to think about how much treasure and lives those three Oblast's are worth.

Russia would need to give some real concessions (Like the rest of Ukraine in NATO) but they would get their land bridge to Crimea, and Putin could claim a victory at home, hopefully forestalling the normal murderous thrashing of a failing dictator.

Never mind US and EU riches, which are significant,  tens or hundreds of thousand of people could die grinding away at each other over fortified defenses if we (or Putin) decides to drag this out to the bitter end.