Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 276943 times)

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3275 on: December 30, 2024, 06:23:20 PM »
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

HankB

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3276 on: December 30, 2024, 06:56:40 PM »
This was JFK's second PT boat, extra guns and armor, no torpedoes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_torpedo_boat_PT-59

Trump won in 2016. And again in 2024. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Big Hairy Bee

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3277 on: December 30, 2024, 07:08:02 PM »
Oh hell, I know we do stuff like that...

B-25s in the South Pacific with as many as 18 .50 BMGs, the Maxon Quad Mount, but the Russians just seem to take it to another level...


My high school principal flew B25s in the Pacific during WW2 with a nose mounted 75mm cannon.  He said it was quite a jolt when fired.

WLJ

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“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3279 on: December 31, 2024, 07:08:06 AM »



Looks like a Soviet era BKA 1125 riverine monitor. The main turret was essentially a T-34 turret with the same 76mm gun. Later in the war, when the main gun on the T-34 was upped to 85mm, new monitors also got the 85mm gun.

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3280 on: January 01, 2025, 03:29:33 PM »
$2.5 billion more to Ukraine for weapons, plus another $3.4 billion to pay for Ukrainian government workers, school employees, healthcare workers, and first responders.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2025/01/01/us-providing-37-billion-for-first-responder-teacher-and-healthcare-worker-salaries-not-here-n2405989
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Northwoods

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3281 on: January 01, 2025, 03:41:28 PM »
$2.5 billion more to Ukraine for weapons, plus another $3.4 billion to pay for Ukrainian government workers, school employees, healthcare workers, and first responders.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2025/01/01/us-providing-37-billion-for-first-responder-teacher-and-healthcare-worker-salaries-not-here-n2405989


How much aid has gone to Helene victims?
Formerly sumpnz

RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3282 on: January 01, 2025, 04:10:55 PM »
How much aid has gone to Helene victims?

About 37 cents.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

cordex

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3283 on: January 01, 2025, 04:15:12 PM »

BobR

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3284 on: January 01, 2025, 04:28:41 PM »

RocketMan

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3285 on: January 01, 2025, 04:47:26 PM »
With 29% interest

bob

And 10% for the Big Guy.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3286 on: January 01, 2025, 09:47:08 PM »

Looks like a Soviet era BKA 1125 riverine monitor. The main turret was essentially a T-34 turret with the same 76mm gun. Later in the war, when the main gun on the T-34 was upped to 85mm, new monitors also got the 85mm gun.
The only reason I knew about that is Drachinifel has a video on them. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWNWgc-Obc
This one I think.
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K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3287 on: January 02, 2025, 07:59:47 AM »
I didn't know that Drach had a video on them. Thanks!

Only reason I knew about them is many years ago I saw a show, hosted by Burt Lancaster, called "The Forgotten War." Something like a 20-part (20 hours) series from the late 1970s about the Soviet Union's WW II experiences. One of the episodes was on the naval war and it had some fantastic film of river monitor operations.

Here's a really good page on the variations on the Soviet river monitors: https://naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/riverine-gunboats-monitors.php
Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

Angel Eyes

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3288 on: January 04, 2025, 09:25:52 PM »
"The grass really is greener over shallow graves."
                          - Feral Historian

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3289 on: January 10, 2025, 02:51:01 PM »
Quote
Ukraine will likely lose the war within the next 12 to 18 months. Ukraine will not lose in a nice, negotiated way, with vital territories sacrificed but an independent Ukraine kept alive, sovereign, and protected by Western security guarantees. It faces instead a complete defeat, a loss of sovereignty, and full Russian control.
- Robert Kagan

The neoclowns are now saying the quiet part out loud. I don't think any of us even suggested that was a possibility.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3290 on: January 10, 2025, 03:25:29 PM »
Even if we keep giving them weapons, Ukraine will eventually run out of bodies.  The question is if Russia decides they are losing too much first or gets distracted by something else. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3291 on: January 11, 2025, 07:49:12 AM »
- Robert Kagan

The neoclowns are now saying the quiet part out loud. I don't think any of us even suggested that was a possibility.



They've been saying that since before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Things like Russia's going to roll over Ukraine in 3 days, and By next week there won't be a Ukraine.

At every turn it's RUSSIA'S GONNA TAKE THEM DOWN ANY DAY NOW!

I've said it before, I'll say it again -- ship Ukraine weapons, all the weapons they want, and LET. RUSSIA. BLEED.
Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3292 on: January 11, 2025, 02:13:03 PM »
They've been saying that since before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Things like Russia's going to roll over Ukraine in 3 days, and By next week there won't be a Ukraine.

At every turn it's RUSSIA'S GONNA TAKE THEM DOWN ANY DAY NOW!

I've said it before, I'll say it again -- ship Ukraine weapons, all the weapons they want, and LET. RUSSIA. BLEED.
Yep, there is that.  They have already lasted longer than anyone thought they would. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3293 on: January 11, 2025, 02:19:38 PM »
Yep, there is that.  They have already lasted longer than anyone thought they would.

I gave them what, 3 weeks? Of course that was before we learned just how utterly incompetent the Russian mil had become and how run down much of their equipment was
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3294 on: January 11, 2025, 03:18:35 PM »
I'll admit that I thought it was going to be pretty quick, too. I figured the sheer weight of combined arms Russia could muster would do the deed.

Everyone bought Russia's line that "We ARE a superpower comparable to the USA!

There are a couple of big reasons why I am all for arming Ukraine.

The first, and most obviously, is I HATE Russia. I've hated Russia and the Russians since I was a kid and they were, as the Soviets, a legitimate superpower.

I think I developed such a hatred for them because there were so many people in the US and around the world looking at the US's military, political, and economic problems in the 1970s and proclaiming the perpetual decline and eventual death of American and celebrating what they believe to be the moral and economic ascendency of the Soviet Union.

I had a couple of professors in college (1983 to 1987) who absolutely HATED Ronald Reagan because he dared... he DARED!!! to challenge the Soviets for the right to be top dog. I always wondered what they felt when the Soviet Union collapsed completely and their vision of a glorious world socialist state died with it? I hope they cried.

The other reason why I'm all for arming Ukraine is it's a perfect demonstration for the Chinese of NATO's weapons capabilities. The Chinese think that their weapons are comparable to NATO's, and the war in Ukraine is showing them a very different picture. The Russians thought the same thing, but it's very likely that the Chinese have figured out that their weapons are ahead of Russian weapons, but still nothing like NATO weapons.

No, there aren't many Chinese weapons in the fight in Ukraine, but the Chinese are seeing NATO weapon capabilities that they can't even dream of, and that's giving them some pause.

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3295 on: January 11, 2025, 03:39:46 PM »
No, there aren't many Chinese weapons in the fight in Ukraine, but the Chinese are seeing NATO weapon capabilities that they can't even dream of, and that's giving them some pause.

And/or, they are happy to watch everybody else depleting their weapon stockpiles.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3296 on: January 11, 2025, 04:43:32 PM »

No, there aren't many Chinese weapons in the fight in Ukraine, but the Chinese are seeing NATO weapon capabilities that they can't even dream of, and that's giving them some pause.

Is it?  What exactly about the CHICOMs increasing aggression in the South China Sea over the last 3 years indicates "pause" has been given?

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3297 on: January 11, 2025, 04:58:57 PM »
China has become seemingly more aggressive (more push and shove sabre rattling crap), but I contend that they were, from the start of COVID in 2020 through the first half of the Ukraine War, on a path towards a full-blown escalation or even invasion against either Taiwan or possibly the Philippines.

NATO backing Ukraine showed them that there might very well be a full response to such an incident.
Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3298 on: January 11, 2025, 05:03:58 PM »
They still are on that path.

They are literally building an amphib invasion fleet.

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3299 on: January 11, 2025, 05:04:53 PM »
Don't underestimate the Chinese and they have been taking notes.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi