Author Topic: How was your flight?  (Read 6020 times)

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2024, 11:56:28 AM »
How was your flight?
A little windy

A just about brand new 737-Max has it emergency exit door blow out at 16,000ft.
No one hurt thank goodness but I'm sure a change of underwear is in order for many.
Reportedly no was sitting in the seat next to it.

Alaska Airlines grounds 737 Max 9 planes after section blows out mid-air
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67899564

Alaska Airlines pilot frantically requests ATC help after plane window BLEW OUT over Portland
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12932631/Brand-new-Alaska-Airlines-Boeing-737-Max-suffers-mid-air-window-BLOW-causing-depressurization-ripped-childs-shirt-jet-returned-Portland-Airport-High-tech-jet-suffered-two-deadly-crashes.html





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sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2024, 12:36:50 PM »
I'm supposed to fly Alaska on a Max 9 to Orlando in a couple weeks.  Hopefully this doesn't impact that trip.

MillCreek

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2024, 12:44:50 PM »
This is why I have my seatbelt fastened whenever I am in the seat.  Being sucked out of the fuselage at 35,000 feet will ruin my day.
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Boomhauer

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2024, 10:50:32 PM »
This is why I have my seatbelt fastened whenever I am in the seat.  Being sucked out of the fuselage at 35,000 feet will ruin my day.

Also good for the much more common occurrence of turbulence/air pockets.

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2024, 05:44:38 AM »
It's being reported that it wasn't an actual exit door blowout.  It was a filler panel placed in an unused exit door cutout in the fuselage.  Buyers of the 737 series aircraft apparently have options with regards to the placement of emergency exits depending on the seating arrangement in the aircraft.
Given that the aircraft was brand spanking new, it's looking like Boeing screwed the pooch again with its installation.  That filler panel is unlikely to have been changed at all by Southwest Airlines.
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2024, 07:52:50 AM »
It's being reported that it wasn't an actual exit door blowout.  It was a filler panel placed in an unused exit door cutout in the fuselage. 

The media kept saying window but then I saw the size and shape and assumed it was emergency exit but now that you mention it it's a bit big for a for what you normally see for emergency exits. At least I didn't call it a window like the media.  :P

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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2024, 08:31:19 AM »
Listening to this as I post as it's rather interesting

"The mid cabin door plug departed the airplane"

NTSB update on mid-flight incident on Alaska Airlines flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eM9Yf5apLI

This occurred at 16k ft, imagine if this had happened at cruising attitude (30-35k) with passengers with seatbelts off and milling about the cabin
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BobR

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2024, 02:57:02 PM »
They were lucky, still in a climb and everyone sitting with their belts on and Alaska Airlines maintenance people using the required amount and correct length of bolts to hold the seats in. ;)

bob

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2024, 09:38:02 AM »
Panel reportedly found in a back yard.
Also a cell phone in perfect condition with the charger cord still attached.

Critical piece of Alaska Airlines Boeing plane found in Portland school teacher's backyard
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/critical-piece-alaska-airlines-boeing-plane-found-portland-school-teachers-backyard
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2024, 05:54:25 PM »
Quote
United Airlines has discovered loose bolts during inspections of its 737 Max 9 aircrafts following the shocking mid-air Alaska Airlines door blowout on Friday, according to reports
Quote
United has already reportedly found loose bolts and other parts on plug doors on at least five of its planes, according to The Air Current. Chicago-based United has 79 of the grounded 737 Max 9 planes.

The airline told DailyMail.com on Monday: 'Since we began preliminary inspections on Saturday, we have found instances that appear to relate to installation issues in the door plug – for example, bolts that needed additional tightening. These findings will be remedied by our Tech Ops team to safely return the aircraft to service.' DailyMail.com has contacted Boeing for comment.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12940287/737max-united-alaska-airlines-faa-inspection.html

Should be fairly easy to traced back to who's job it was.
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zahc

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2024, 06:49:22 PM »
I thought the doors could only open inward anyway... what kind of design would rely on bolt torque to keep the door from flying off?
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sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2024, 08:13:46 PM »
zahc (and others) this video will answer your design questions.

https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=0vMZFCc0rljTy68V

JTHunter

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2024, 10:49:58 PM »
According to some reports I've read, this particular plane has had pressure sensors sounding alarms several times, including the day before this particular flight.  This is why Alaska Airlines had stipulated that this plane be restricted to "over land" flights only.  Finding that plug may help clear up some questions.
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sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2024, 11:00:55 PM »
They found the door plug yesterday in a school teachers yard.  Apparently his name was Bob.

dogmush

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2024, 07:18:10 AM »
zahc (and others) this video will answer your design questions.

https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=0vMZFCc0rljTy68V

That actually seems like a pretty robust design, and a good way to have a plug in the hole while leaving the fuselage able to have an actual door option.  I'm also reading that this door plug design is used on all the 737 NG  planes, not just the Max's, which lends it some more reliability, if accurate.

I'm going to bet that the stop bolts weren't installed properly, and this is a human error issue not a design issue.  And considering the age of the aircraft, I bet Alaska hadn't opened that plug for maintenence yet, so the human error was probably in Everett.

Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2024, 09:35:50 AM »
That actually seems like a pretty robust design, and a good way to have a plug in the hole while leaving the fuselage able to have an actual door option.  I'm also reading that this door plug design is used on all the 737 NG  planes, not just the Max's, which lends it some more reliability, if accurate.

That's contrary to what I've read -- which is not surprising.

737 Max aircraft with larger seating capacity use that opening (and the one on the starboard side) as actual exit doors, not plugs. Some airlines that don't need the exit doors there nonetheless order their planes with the door, but deactivated. Those don't have a regular cabin-size window in the door, they have a smaller, round porthole. I believe the models that have deactivated doors also have "Door Open" sensors for those doors connected to warning lights in the cockpit.

Apparently the models with the plug don't have sensors on the plugs. If this plug had been working its way loose during previous flights, this would explain why the only warning the pilots had was a non=specific loss of pressure warning rather than a specific "Door Open" warning.
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2024, 09:45:18 AM »
The nuts to the bolts are supposed to be torqued properly and cottered pined in place in a way, as shown in the video, that there's no way it could have worked it's way loose if done right. Someone dropped the ball hard. Maybe forgot the cotter pins?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2024, 11:29:02 AM by WLJ »
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2024, 11:28:44 AM »
Here's the Babylon Bee

Alaska Airlines Adds New 'Scenic View' Seat For $30 Upgrade Fee
https://babylonbee.com/news/alaska-adds-new-scenic-view-seat-for-30-upgrade-fee
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sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2024, 11:35:30 AM »
Here's the Babylon Bee

Alaska Airlines Adds New 'Scenic View' Seat For $30 Upgrade Fee
https://babylonbee.com/news/alaska-adds-new-scenic-view-seat-for-30-upgrade-fee
:rofl:

dogmush

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2024, 11:43:48 AM »
That's contrary to what I've read -- which is not surprising.

737 Max aircraft with larger seating capacity use that opening (and the one on the starboard side) as actual exit doors, not plugs. Some airlines that don't need the exit doors there nonetheless order their planes with the door, but deactivated. Those don't have a regular cabin-size window in the door, they have a smaller, round porthole. I believe the models that have deactivated doors also have "Door Open" sensors for those doors connected to warning lights in the cockpit.

Apparently the models with the plug don't have sensors on the plugs. If this plug had been working its way loose during previous flights, this would explain why the only warning the pilots had was a non=specific loss of pressure warning rather than a specific "Door Open" warning.

Upon further reading (and an indepth video from 737 technical channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLfT5WJz-6s ) the mid cabin exists were added to the 737-900ER (the largest of the NG generation), and they are on the MAX8-200, MAX 9, and MAX 10.  So significantly less than "all the 737 NG's" as I originally understood.  Still there's a fair bit of them out there.

I will stand by my thought that it's a pretty robust plug closure system.  The cabin pressure is pushing the plug into 12 seperate pads holding it in the aircraft.  Someone really had to screw up to let that thing raise the 1.5" or so and slip off the stop pads.

sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2024, 12:05:19 PM »
I'm betting they find there were no bolts installed, or if they were, the nuts weren't, or improperly so that they came off.  Sounded like even having 1 of the 4 bolts properly installed would likely have prevented the incident.

Tuco

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2024, 12:51:57 PM »
Slap on some blue loctite, torque them nuts and get those birds back on deck!
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2024, 08:39:35 PM »
Update from Juan Browne. (Juan is an American Airlines 777 pilot.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubCQZtLTAug
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sumpnz

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2024, 06:39:09 PM »
I'm supposed to fly Alaska on a Max 9 to Orlando in a couple weeks.  Hopefully this doesn't impact that trip.

Switched to Delta and A321neo for the flights.

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #74 on: January 11, 2024, 09:48:07 AM »
When a satire site is probably closer to the truth than most MSM

Boeing CEO Assures Nervous Fliers That All 737 Aircraft Are Built To The Highest Diversity Standards
https://babylonbee.com/news/boeing-ceo-assures-nervous-flyers-that-all-737-aircraft-are-built-to-the-highest-diversity-standards
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