DOGE cuts - where to start?

[Northwoods]

And nobody drives because they "have to"?

US transit agencies provide about 7 billion trips per year. That's a lot of trips for something that nobody uses.

Texas had a chance to build HSR on their own terms. Back when Texas Central was a private partnership and completely intrastate, the feds would not have been involved and TX could have run it however they want. Now that it's attracted Federal investment and is being associated with Amtrak there's going to be federal strings attached and who knows what those will be, but they won't be what TX would have done if they had kept it a state project. I hoped for better from a state that runs its own power grid.

That's about 20 trips per person.

[zahc]

That's about 20 trips per person.

If you divide by all the people who couldn't possibly use the systems, yes. That's an argument that transit systems should be extended to serve more people. Not an argument that people don't use transit systems or that transit systems aren't used. 32 states have populations lower than the weekday ridership of the New York subway alone.

[Northwoods]

If you divide by all the people who couldn't possibly use the systems, yes. That's an argument that transit systems should be extended to serve more people. Not an argument that people don't use transit systems or that transit systems aren't used. 32 states have populations lower than the weekday ridership of the New York subway alone.

And you just made the point about population density being a major factor in use of public transit.

[dogmush]

And the New York Subway is a dystopian hellhole that people only use because NYC makes other forms on transit prohibitively expensive and they have to.

[Bogie]

St. Louis' system with some rail and buses, and geezer call a ride buses, and taxis (about the only use for them now) to take kids to their schools on the taxpayer dime...
 
The people who run it don't use it. And the advertising basically treats it like a carnival ride to use to go downtown for sportsball. The rail system is dangerous as hell, crime wise. And the routes don't make a lot of sense. When I had to take a bus from midtown to out past the outer belt, the trip was usually over an hour. With a car? 20 minutes, in rush hour stop and go...
 
Guessing that a lot of New Yorkers do 400 trips yearly. So that really skews things.

[Ben]

Chuck Schumer is backing DOGE!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1899536957664874813

 

[MechAg94]

And nobody drives because they "have to"?

US transit agencies provide about 7 billion trips per year. That's a lot of trips for something that nobody uses.

Texas had a chance to build HSR on their own terms. Back when Texas Central was a private partnership and completely intrastate, the feds would not have been involved and TX could have run it however they want. Now that it's attracted Federal investment and is being associated with Amtrak there's going to be federal strings attached and who knows what those will be, but they won't be what TX would have done if they had kept it a state project. I hoped for better from a state that runs its own power grid.

Was that when Rick Perry was talking about it?  If memory serves, I don't think many were all that happy with the partnership deals he was setting up.  There were other projects so I may be thinking of tollway ideas they had as well. 

[Ben]

So it appears that as of now, a judge has ordered that pretty much every probationary fed that was let go be rehired.

Interesting how this works. When I was a probationary fed, I knew that I could be let go at any time for any reason. Also, where was this judge when feds both civilian and uniformed were being fired for not getting the covid jab? I didn't see demonstrations and rallies for any of them.

I would imagine that this judge's ruling, if not overturned, means that the Trump admin will proceed with and expand the RIF, which affects more than probationary employees.

[JTHunter]

So it appears that as of now, a judge has ordered that pretty much every probationary fed that was let go be rehired.

Interesting how this works. When I was a probationary fed, I knew that I could be let go at any time for any reason. Also, where was this judge when feds both civilian and uniformed were being fired for not getting the covid jab? I didn't see demonstrations and rallies for any of them.

I would imagine that this judge's ruling, if not overturned, means that the Trump admin will proceed with and expand the RIF, which affects more than probationary employees.

Don't forget - this San Francisco based judge is a Clinton appointee.  Would you expect anything else from such a person?   

[Ben]

Don't forget - this San Francisco based judge is a Clinton appointee.  Would you expect anything else from such a person?   

This was actually a Maryland judge, who greatly expanded on the CA decision.

[Ben]

And now this potentially affects me - not through DOGE, but through aholes in the federal workforce. I just saw on the reddits that they are trying to get the unions to get a petition going to remove Tesla from the TSP. Doesn't work that way with the S&P500, but still, keep your *expletive deleted*ing political advocacy hands out of my TSP pockets. I invested in the TSP to let professionals handle my money based on sound fiscal principles, not to have it used for political advocacy, from either side of the political spectrum.

[HankB]

So it appears that as of now, a judge has ordered that pretty much every probationary fed that was let go be rehired.

The judge should be ignored - Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution says "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."  Aside from a few high offices like cabinet officials and ambassadors which require Senate confirmation ("Advise and Consent"), hiring and firing executive branch workers is clearly an executive branch prerogative, there is no provision for a judge to seize that power for himself, such action is unconstitutional and thereby null and void immediately.

[Ben]

DOGE has a new spokesman.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1900368664567619612

 

[WLJ]

Cue the howling from the union

USPS signs agreement with DOGE, agrees to cut 10,000 workers: ‘Broken business model’
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/usps-signs-agreement-doge-agrees-cut-10000-workers-broken-business-model

[Live Life]

DOGE has a new spokesman.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1900368664567619612

 

That aged well ... 

2011. Obama announces a DOGE department and puts Joe Biden in charge of it! 😂

"Nobody messes with Joe." 🤣

[Ben]

Interestingly, in a "You're wrong on the internet" argument I'm having online, I was looking up the number of fed positions eliminated during the Clinton era (377,000 conservatively if anyone is interested), and was initially using Gemini to get the info. Gemini refused to answer on the grounds that it was political. In fairness, it refused to answer on current numbers under Trump either. Grok had no issues with providing me with facts directly from government documents.

[cordex]

ChatGPT 4.5 didn't complain about that at all.  It claims 436,000 and quotes a Marketwatch article:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-isnt-the-first-president-to-slash-the-federal-workforce-how-hes-doing-it-is-a-different-story-736b6147

It did feel the need to make this comment:

It's important to note that the approaches of the two administrations differ significantly. Clinton's reductions were achieved through a comprehensive plan involving buyouts and early retirement incentives, aiming to streamline government operations without severe disruptions. In contrast, Trump's approach has been characterized by rapid and extensive layoffs, leading to legal challenges and concerns about potential impacts on government functionality.

[BobR]

I hope the guys who decided to have these layoffs of the probationary employees stopped by adjudication  doesn't come back to bite the employees in the ass. If (and it looks like they will be) these people are rehired then they can turn around and give them a 45 day notice of termination and not give the very generous severance package they are now getting. I could be wrong but this may be a possibility which would not only fire the employees but also save quite a bit of money.

bob

[Northwoods]

And now this potentially affects me - not through DOGE, but through aholes in the federal workforce. I just saw on the reddits that they are trying to get the unions to get a petition going to remove Tesla from the TSP. Doesn't work that way with the S&P500, but still, keep your *expletive deleted*ing political advocacy hands out of my TSP pockets. I invested in the TSP to let professionals handle my money based on sound fiscal principles, not to have it used for political advocacy, from either side of the political spectrum.

Roll into an IRA?

[Ben]

Roll into an IRA?

Not if I can help it. The TSP is an incredibly good investment vehicle.

It's mostly talk by your typical fed hippies who know nothing about finance. They and their petitions to the TSP can't control who is and is not in the S&P500. I just hate that the worthless unions would try and get involved at all into ESG style "fiscal advocacy". They don't seem to care that if they did have influence, they'd be *expletive deleted*ing over way more fed employees and retirees than probationary employees that they would be helping (and they wouldn't be helping - they would just making a "*expletive deleted*ck Elon" statement without thought of innocent people being hurt, just like with the vandalism of Teslas).

[Northwoods]

You do realize in an IRA you can pick from almost any stock, bond, mutual fund, ETF, etc?  And possibly with lower fees than the TSP.

[Ben]

You do realize in an IRA you can pick from almost any stock, bond, mutual fund, ETF, etc?  And possibly with lower fees than the TSP.

Yes, I have an IRA in addition to the TSP. TSP fees are some of the lowest that there are.

[cordex]

I'd love to be wrong, but I bet any firing is less than 1%.

I was wrong.  So far we are at 3.7% but with tons of challenges on the table.

[dogmush]

I was wrong.  So far we are at 3.7% but with tons of challenges on the table.

In Jan 1993 there were about 2.1 Million Fed employees (not counting USPS), and Clinton's initial goal was 252,000 position reduction (he surpassed that by the end).  So he was looking for 12% there.  I'd be surprised if we don't get at least that by the end of Trump's term.

The Deferred Resignation Program is the easy button (despite the *expletive deleted*ing Unions), but the RIF process exists, and when followed while it takes a little longer, there's not much Congress or the Courts can say about it. My particular corner of the DOD is mostly RIF resistant, but I've been talking with my fellow workers up in our HQ, and my servicing HR guy at OPM.  The RIF process has already begun.  It'll take 10-14 months, but folks are losing their jobs.  My Sister-in-Law tells me that the next round of USAID RIF letters are due this month.  That'll pretty much end that agency.

[Ben]

One thing under Clinton that I'm surprised Trump hasn't done. Or done yet, or maybe I don't know about it. Clinton did some pretty decent early retirement deals that a lot of people took.

Also, while Clinton really went to town on the FTEs, one thing he did (actually Gore was in charge of it) was kill off FTEs and then replace them with contractors, often at a much higher cost, using a different pot of money, thus saying that they were saving taxpayer dollars on the FTEs while not really saving taxpayer dollars. In the last few years of the administration, they started hiring feds again, often through contractor conversion, and of course Bush really ramped that up after 9/11.

I started as a contractor towards the end of the Clinton admin in 1997 (actually a few years earlier, but via research grants, so technically a university employee those years, which was another FTE workaround) and became an FTE a year later, when slots started opening up in 1998.