Author Topic: Israel Under Attack  (Read 42875 times)

dogmush

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1375 on: Today at 10:36:04 AM »
How are we defining "innocent" though?  Not being a smart ass, it's a real question that we (the US) struggled with for the whole GWOT and a good portion of Vietnam.

Anyone not a Direct Combatant?  What about the non-combatants that are providing material aid?  Hiding and storing weapons?  Providing intel on troop movements and positions?  Just offering places for combatants to sleep and rest for the night?  What about folks who know (for a Hamas example) where there are tunnel or bunker entrances and hide that information?  Do we just assume women and children are innocents in the war?  Why? 

And how can you possibly tell from the bodies if they were innocents caught in the crossfire, or helping Hamas?  (or the IDF for that matter, I'd be shocked if there weren't civilian IDF and Mossad assets in Gaza)

Further:  As a Gazan (or Ukrainian, or Iraqi) civilian you are under no obligation to help a military invading your home, but if you don't, or you help your military forces, are you still "innocent" or have you picked a side?

This is one of the reasons that war, ESPECIALLY urban warfare, is difficult. *expletive deleted*it gets real blurry, real fast.  There are definitely corpses in Gaza right now that wanted no part of this conflict and were truly innocent, but how many, and which ones? Gods only know. (literally)


cordex

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1376 on: Today at 10:42:15 AM »
I don't know ... if a young, Gazan girl wearing tactical gear got out of a vehicle that had been in an active firefight with IDF and she got killed would it still be a war crime?   =D

Ben

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1377 on: Today at 10:54:04 AM »
How are we defining "innocent" though?  Not being a smart ass, it's a real question that we (the US) struggled with for the whole GWOT and a good portion of Vietnam.

Let's not forget Dresden and Hiroshima (I would include London, but I figure we're talking about the "good guys" doing the killing here), where there definitely WERE innocent civilians. I mean, unless you count people trying to live their lives while a war is going on as not innocent. The Allies decided that those two examples were a necessary evil to end the wars on those fronts before millions more died.
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WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1378 on: Today at 11:20:29 AM »
Oh My Marx! A Jew!

Quote
@amuse
@amuse
Duke invited a Jewish speaker to graduation and Pro-H@mas graduates walked out. The speaker? Jerry Seinfeld.

https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1789680307127366083
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WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1379 on: Today at 11:22:01 AM »
Another walkout someone did a voice over for  :rofl:

https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1789771839146733946
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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dogmush

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1380 on: Today at 11:23:53 AM »
Let's not forget Dresden and Hiroshima (I would include London, but I figure we're talking about the "good guys" doing the killing here), where there definitely WERE innocent civilians. I mean, unless you count people trying to live their lives while a war is going on as not innocent. The Allies decided that those two examples were a necessary evil to end the wars on those fronts before millions more died.

And as a further example of the grey, there's documented evidence that Japanese civilians were training to use whatever they could (sticks and *expletive deleted*it) and building fortifications for the expected invasion.  So were they non-combatants, or not-yet-combatants? 

Not to mention the civilians in the factories of Nagasaki that were actively building and shipping war materiel.

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1381 on: Today at 11:26:01 AM »
And as a further example of the grey, there's documented evidence that Japanese civilians were training to use whatever they could (sticks and *expletive deleted*it) and building fortifications for the expected invasion.

See the invasion of Saipan for a preview of what awaited Allied troops as far as Japanese civilians was concerned.

Edit: Video should start at the appropriate time

https://youtu.be/UK7sI_78ZN8?t=1873
« Last Edit: Today at 11:43:13 AM by WLJ »
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MechAg94

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1382 on: Today at 12:29:36 PM »
I would also add that there were innocent Israeli civilians who didn't want anything to do with war and were attacked and taken hostage by Hamas terrorists.  This stuff sucks for everyone.  Making any effort at all to avoid excessive civilian casualties is far better than most of human history.  Civilians will get hurt no matter what.  Groups like Hamas will make sure of that. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1383 on: Today at 12:31:05 PM »
It is said that war is hell.
It is worse for only the guilty suffer in hell.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

RocketMan

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1384 on: Today at 12:31:53 PM »
Another walkout someone did a voice over for  :rofl:

https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1789771839146733946

Sounded like a Trump impersonator.
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1385 on: Today at 12:38:25 PM »
I would also add that there were innocent Israeli civilians who didn't want anything to do with war and were attacked and taken hostage by Hamas terrorists.  This stuff sucks for everyone.  Making any effort at all to avoid excessive civilian casualties is far better than most of human history.  Civilians will get hurt no matter what.  Groups like Hamas will make sure of that. 

No no no! Completely untrue!

ALL Israelis are guilty of many and a multitude of crimes!

While Palestinians are completely, purely guiltless and innocent, thus martyrs for Allah's love!

Why don't you people understand that?
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1386 on: Today at 02:27:47 PM »
Not the Babylon Bee

And we're suppose to take them seriously  :facepalm:

LOL: Princeton Protesters MOCKED After Announcing 'Rotary Hunger Strikes'
https://twitchy.com/fuzzychimp/2024/05/13/princeton-hunger-strikers-give-up-rotary-hunger-strikes-n2396158

And here's the Babylon Bee

College Students Announce Indefinite Hunger Strike For Palestine Between 10 AM And Noon And Also Between 1 PM and 5 PM Every Day Except For Some Light Snacking
https://babylonbee.com/news/college-students-announce-indefinite-hunger-strike-for-palestine-between-10-am-and-noon-and-also-between-1-pm-and-5-pm-every-day-except-for-some-light-snacking

 :rofl:
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1387 on: Today at 03:12:57 PM »
More commencement fun

Columbia University student in handcuffs rips up diploma on commencement stage in act of protest
https://www.foxnews.com/media/columbia-university-student-handcuffs-rips-diploma-commencement-stage-protest
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

MechAg94

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #1388 on: Today at 03:53:02 PM »
The graduation I just went to, the students got a tube with a sheet in it to order a copy of their diploma.  I heard they lined up that order before the graduation began. 

Anyway, I bet that was just a copy torn up.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge