Author Topic: Self Defense via SUV  (Read 39396 times)

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,294
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2013, 01:51:23 PM »
A lot of this is clear as mud. The beginning of the video doesn't show much of anything, other than the awesome obstacle clearing capabilities of the Range Rover. I guarantee you, if there were videos out there that exonerated the bikers, they would be posted all over the internet by now. There won't be, because a video showing that doesn't exist.

bob

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2013, 02:00:33 PM »
Yeah, the only possible scenario for him "helping an injured rider" that I can think of that would be true would be if the guy who initially brake checked the RR fell off at the first collision and he was tending to him. But even in that case, he'd still be right there and see that the driver was getting attacked so...
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2013, 03:36:09 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2013, 04:44:03 PM »
Yeah, the only possible scenario for him "helping an injured rider" that I can think of that would be true would be if the guy who initially brake checked the RR fell off at the first collision and he was tending to him. But even in that case, he'd still be right there and see that the driver was getting attacked so...

unless he was helping someone that was injured by the suv's get away, and then was struck by another vehicle on the freeway?  

btw, did anyone else notice that even after the suv's window appeared to break, it still remained intact?  i'm wondering if range rover has an "impact resistant glass" option.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 05:31:39 PM by geronimotwo »
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,799
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2013, 05:32:32 PM »
Quote
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle.  One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender.  Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires. 

That's not necessarily what happened. As others have pointed out, there is no video of the pre-brake-check festivities. I think a more likely chain of events is:

Quote
Dude and his family go for a drive, not knowing asshats are staging a spectacle. ...Bikers try to take over the highway and range rover driver does not play along.  This angers the bikers, leading to ...  One biker deliberatly cuts him off and brake checks causing a non-injury fender bender.  Other bikers start pounding the car and slashing the tires. 

In many self-defense scenarios, complying is an option (i.e. just give them your wallet, because it's cheaper than shooting them). This might have been one of those scenarios. I think it's worth discussing at least as much as proper evasion techniques and weaponry.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

AmbulanceDriver

  • Junior Rocketeer
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,933
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2013, 06:02:54 PM »
Zahc, only one problem, how is SUV driver supposed to know that the asshats are trying to take over the highway to be asshats, and not trying to slow him down to rob/maim/carjack/etc.?
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

"For some many people, attempting to process a logical line of thought brings up the blue screen of death." -Blakenzy

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »
Rules just changed for bikers. Do something stupid? Try what these guys did? Get dead. Unintended consequences.  And i expect the cops to crack down.

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,340
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2013, 06:45:57 PM »
Quote
there is no video of the pre-brake-check festivities

The 24 seconds of video before the brake check don't count?

Quote
...Bikers try to take over the highway and range rover driver does not play along

Except range rover driver DID try to "play along". When the bikes got in front of him and slowed down he was in the process of slowing down at the same rate when f***tardo decided to to do the brake check.

Quote
(i.e. just give them your wallet, because it's cheaper than shooting them)

Yeah because the robber's just gonna take your wallet and play by "the rules" and not shoot or stab you after you give him the wallet. God knows the criminals have a "rulebook" that they follow every time.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2013, 10:17:51 PM »
.....  i'm curious what the law states regarding a self defense incident like this?  gun laws are fairly clear about how and when defensive shootings may occur, but i've never read anything regarding vehicular uses of force.  .....

Use of force is use of force.  Use of lethal/deadlyt force is use of lethal/deadly force.  THe implement used has nothing to do with it.

Wonder if you got all wrapped around "vehicular manslaughter", which really should be no different than baseball-bat manslaughter or watermelon manslaughter.

Strange how the actual outcome of the situation supports the notion that there was reason to fear imminent death or serious bodily injury once the clowns started their game.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2013, 12:17:39 AM »
Liveleak had several other videos that helmet cam boy had posted to youtube before he got smart and pulled them down.

Ahhh, here they are.  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

As you can see "Two Wheels Good, Four Wheels Bad."  Oooopppsss, sorry, channeled George Orwell there for a minute.  The Cyclists don't seem to think that those pesky traffic laws apply to them, only those in "cages".   Given their high level of demonstrated asshattery (and disregard for traffic safety), I  would guess that Mr Lien somehow offended them by being on the same road.

I will make one final point as a take away from this incident.  Keep moving, mobility is your friend.  Reverse can be pretty good gear choice, when forward is now longer an option.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,340
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2013, 12:28:31 AM »
Quote
Keep moving, mobility is your friend

Indeed. You're a lot harder to hurt when you're moving at 55mph than 0, even though your vehicle cannot match the acceleration or maneuverability of a sportsbike.

Quote
Reverse can be pretty good gear choice, when forward is now longer an option.

Especially since the bikes behind you blocking you in can't go into reverse (since most bikes don't have reverse gear) you've got a chance of getting more of the *expletive deleted*ers plus the bikes to the side and front of you are going to take some time to get turned around (and they are all in each other's way when trying to get turned around, too).

Cut a J-turn and go back from whence you came...then see about crossing over a grass median or finding one of the emergency vehicle cut-throughs.

I also took away that maybe a lift kit isn't a suburb redneck wet dream anymore...you don't want to get hung up on obstacles such as a motorcycle/rider that you just went Big Foot on.

And if you are forced out of your vehicle bring some pain with you for your antagonists.

And for God's Sake channel your inner Genghis Khan if you're ever attacked.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2013, 08:27:45 AM »
Quote
I also took away that maybe a lift kit isn't a suburb redneck wet dream anymore...
Hehe. A friend of mine recently put together a .300blk pistol for car carry. That doesn't seem too over the top anymore.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2013, 10:17:41 AM »
An F-350 is looking better all the time  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2013, 04:41:34 PM »
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2013, 04:47:11 PM »
But, but, but....he was just turning his life around.  All those bikers were one their way to the pet shelter, after singing hymns with orphans.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2013, 05:06:16 PM »
that moron biker got crunched in new york?  the good boy?  is a habitual offender  no license since 1999.  father of the year
*expletive deleted*ck him
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/jeremiah-edwin-mieses-jay-meezee-road-rage-video/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

tokugawa

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,850
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2013, 06:57:15 PM »
An F-350 is looking better all the time  :lol:

Or  =D a sportsmobile 4x4 conversion on a E350 van-

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,340
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2013, 07:09:13 PM »
An F-350 is looking better all the time  :lol:

Should do the trick
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,314
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2013, 07:09:51 PM »
if it were me and my family, i'd have done the same thing as the suv driver.  i'm curious what the law states regarding a self defense incident like this?  gun laws are fairly clear about how and when defensive shootings may occur, but i've never read anything regarding vehicular uses of force.  i'm surprised there is no whining from the anti "stand your ground" contingent.  perhaps they will bring in some prosecuters from florida to make the charges (against the suv driver) in another week or so.

I respectfully disagree. "Gun" laws do not say anything about defensive shootings. The laws that apply to defensive use of a firearm are general laws that address the use of deadly (or "lethal," in some states) force for self defense. The nature of the deadly force (firearm, knife, sword, bludgeon, or automobile) is not mentioned in these laws. They address only the circumstances under which an individual may use deadly force to defend himself or a third party. Generally, the criterion is that the individual must have a "reasonable" fear of incurring death or serious bodily injury from an attack. In some states, before employing deadly force the individual must first try to retreat.

IMHO, this incident clearly meets the criteria, and the driver of the SUV was justified in using his vehicle as a weapon of self defense. There was certainly a disparity of force -- he was outnumbered 30:1, and each of the motorcyclists had a ready-made blunt instrument handy in the form of his helmet.

Yeah, If I had thirty angry bikers trying to bash their way into my car, I'd be in fear for my life.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2013, 08:18:58 AM »
hawkmoon,  thanks for pointing that out. 
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2013, 10:37:58 AM »
Any bets on how long before the first lawsuits against the SUV driver are filed?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2013, 10:49:22 AM »
that moron biker got crunched in new york?  the good boy?  is a habitual offender  no license since 1999.  father of the year
*expletive deleted* him
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/jeremiah-edwin-mieses-jay-meezee-road-rage-video/

The comments section- its pretty funny.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Sergeant Bob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,861
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2013, 11:07:30 AM »
Any bets on how long before the first lawsuits against the SUV driver are filed?

I've been reading around the net (not "accredited" new sources) that Edwin Mieses has hired Gloria All Red as his attorney.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2013, 11:11:33 AM »
I've been reading around the net (not "accredited" new sources) that Edwin Mieses has hired Gloria All Red as his attorney.

unfortunately most of the bikers have limited assets. i wonder if a land shark could go after parents etc.  if they bought him a bike knowing he was unlicensed
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Sergeant Bob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,861
Re: Self Defense via SUV
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2013, 11:26:36 AM »
unfortunately most of the bikers have limited assets. i wonder if a land shark could go after parents etc.  if they bought him a bike knowing he was unlicensed

It's the biker's(Jeremiah Edwin Mieses') family who is said to have hired her. Will have to keep an eye out for further news on this, which I'm sure is coming.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G