'nother truck thread

[bedlamite]

You think he's dangerous? Is it because of how violently he waves his arms?

Feel free to take his advice to not use jackstands and use hardware store soft copper plumbing for brake lines. I'm sure it'll work out great.

[charby]

Around here, "older" and "high mileage" aren't necessarily synonymous. In the southwest it's common to have very long distances between destinations, even for regular travel. It's common to see three or four year old trucks with 80k-100k on the clock and still be in nearly- or like-new condition in every other respect, including steering and suspension gear. Fluids and filters, belts, basic tune up items, brakes, and the occasional wheel bearing are usually all that's needed.

Brad

Sorry for the slow reply, but I have noticed once vehicles start getting years on them, things like the rubber dust covers on ball joints and tie rods start to deteriorate and crack, this allows moisture and dirt to get in there.

Low miles on older vehicles also means that exhaust systems start to rust out because they don't get driven regularly to temps to boil all the condensation out. I have that problem with my truck, about every three years I have to replace the muffler. Joys of living in a town where everything I need is at most 2 miles from my house.

[Brad Johnson]

The end result, so far, is that I’m leaning toward an early 2000s GM. And I do see quite a few of them showing up in my Autotrader results, so perhaps fate would have it so.

Only things I can think of for those years are the 6.0 piston slap problems and ABS modules on the 2500/3500 series.

6.0 engines from that era had an issue with cold-start piston slap, essentially the piston design allowing a cold piston just enough free play to cause a slight knock at start up. If the performance environment was one of starting, driving short distances, shutting off the engine long enough to cool significantly, then starting again, this can lead to excessive piston scuffing. On the upside, reasonably priced reman long blocks are available from darn near everyone short of 7-11. Ditto performance upgrades, some of which are astonishingly cheap.

ABS modules are a known Achille's heel of early 2000's 2500/3500 series trucks. They live under the truck and are a common failure point, mostly leak-related. Cheap third-party replacements are available but should be avoided (Dorman, Cardone, etc). They are a waste of time an money. Factory modules, now revised and reliable, are expensive but will likely outlast the truck.

Plan on replacing the fade-prone headlight assemblies. They can be polished out but once they've begun oxidizing it's only a matter of time, the process will continue to accelerate regardless of how much UV protectant you slather on.

Otherwise the trucks are pretty decent. Relatively easy to work on, parts are readily available, and the ride and performance are good.

[Brad Johnson]

Sorry for the slow reply, but I have noticed once vehicles start getting years on them, things like the rubber dust covers on ball joints and tie rods start to deteriorate and crack, this allows moisture and dirt to get in there.

Low miles on older vehicles also means that exhaust systems start to rust out because they don't get driven regularly to temps to boil all the condensation out. I have that problem with my truck, about every three years I have to replace the muffler. Joys of living in a town where everything I need is at most 2 miles from my house.

I was speaking tot the opposite, relatively new trucks with a buttload of miles. I wouldn't touch a low-mileage older truck unless I had full service records and an intimate knowledge of the truck's history.

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

I was speaking tot the opposite, relatively new trucks with a buttload of miles. I wouldn't touch a low-mileage older truck unless I had full service records and an intimate knowledge of the truck's history.

Brad

Why is that?

[Brad Johnson]

Why is that?

Old with low miles means they probably either sat unused a lot, were idled a bunch, or were driven only sporadically on trips too short to get things up to temp. Most likely a combination of all three. You also have to presume they probably weren't serviced a lot, if at all. That's when things like the stuff charby was talking about begin to set in. If I were buying an older low-mileage vehicle without service records it would get the ultra-double-squinky Mk 1 Calibrated Eyeball. I might even go so far as to pop for a full mechanical inspection. I'm one helluva good mechanic but someone who wrenches every day might catch something I didn't.

If you find one in decent mechanical shape, presume you'll need axle and pinion shaft seals. If they aren't leaking now, they will be soon. Good thing is parts are cheap and someone with experience can do them in no time. New bearings while you're at it as they are right there and it only takes a few extra minutes. Might as well slap on new brake slave cylinders while you're there, too, and save yourself the hassle down the road. Again, cheap and they will be staring you in the face.

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

OK. Presumably, the fleet trucks I'm seeing on the market will have records.

I have an advantage, in that my Dad has a lift, and the know-how, and probably won't mind helping me out with the items you mention.

[dogmush]

OK. Presumably, the fleet trucks I'm seeing on the market will have records.

Yep, if it's one thing companies with vehicle fleets are known for, it's pulling a working vehicle out of service to do preventative maintenance on time.  Just like how drivers of fleet vehicles are known for the care with which they treat the vehicles entrusted to them.

/sarcasm

I would look any known fleet truck over very closely before I bought one.  Other than ex rental car fleet I can't think of a vehicle likely to be run harder or put away wetter than a fleet work truck.

[charby]

Fleet=Beat like a rented mule.

[Brad Johnson]

Depends on the fleet. If fleet=rental then, yeah, it's probably been flogged hard and service intervals have been pushed to the absolute limit. If it's a corporate fleet, that could be a different story. Better chance of it being someone's "city truck" used for deliveries or as a middle-manager's "company car". If that's the case, much better chance of it having been properly maintained (or at least not horribly abused).

Brad

[dogmush]

IME the nicely maintained city trucks or manager cars are swapped out in the 5-7 year old range.

Perd is talking about 20 yo trucks.  If it's a 20 yo white base model fleet truck, it's been beat.  I'd bet on it. Or it was a city truck that has had an owner or two since then. 

[Brad Johnson]

If it's a 20 yo white base model fleet truck, it's been beat.  I'd bet on it. Or it was a city truck that has had an owner or two since then. 

Agreed.

Trucks of any stripe are going for a premium right now, at least around here. I was recently offered a trade-in value on my truck equal to what I paid for it almost three years ago. Sounds great, but then there's this little issue of nothing for sale to replace it.

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

Yep, if it's one thing companies with vehicle fleets are known for, it's pulling a working vehicle out of service to do preventative maintenance on time.  Just like how drivers of fleet vehicles are known for the care with which they treat the vehicles entrusted to them.

/sarcasm

I would look any known fleet truck over very closely before I bought one.  Other than ex rental car fleet I can't think of a vehicle likely to be run harder or put away wetter than a fleet work truck.

I was just talking about the records.

When I drove fleet trucks, I know we weren't always gentle with them. On the other hand, we were also required to change the oil on a schedule, and the bean counters didn't shy away from having the trucks professionally serviced when it was needed.

[Declaration Day]

The end result, so far, is that I’m leaning toward an early 2000s GM. And I do see quite a few of them showing up in my Autotrader results, so perhaps fate would have it so.

I had both a 2003 and 2005 Silverado, brand new. Both of them were nightmares starting at 50,000 miles. Numerous electrical problems emerged, and on both of them, the bolt heads holding the headers to the engine started breaking off, one by one, until the headers fell off the sides of the engine. The '05, as I was driving it to a dealership to trade in, the gauges and climate control stopped working. I wouldn't take one of those heaps for free.

[charby]

My 2002 4x4 Frontier Nissan is still running strong with 152,000 on the clock.

I've had to replace the ball joints at 83k, did it myself. Recently I spun a front wheel bearing and some reason the ABS sensor cable broke and tore the inner CV joint cover on the front axle. I fixed all that myself. Rear bumper rusted off, so I replaced that at 140k.

Oher than that, just been gas, oil, brake pads, tires and couple batteries.

I do need to replace the valve cover gaskets this summer, they are starting to weep oil.

[zxcvbob]

I had both a 2003 and 2005 Silverado, brand new. Both of them were nightmares starting at 50,000 miles. Numerous electrical problems emerged, and on both of them, the bolt heads holding the headers to the engine started breaking off, one by one, until the headers fell off the sides of the engine. The '05, as I was driving it to a dealership to trade in, the gauges and climate control stopped working. I wouldn't take one of those heaps for free.

I had a 2001 Silverado with the 4.8L engine, and I never had any trouble with it at all until it rusted apart from the underneath. The body just had a little rust but the frame and the brake lines and cables and some of the suspension was totally shot.  I would love to have one just like it that had never been driven in salt.

[JTHunter]

The first truck I had was an '82 Toyota SR-5 longbed 4WD with the 4 cyl. 22R engine.  Despite a cracked block and fist-sized rust holes behind both front tires, this truck finally threw a rod at about 180,000 miles.
Next was a '97 GMC Sonoma, 4.3 V6 2WD.  It was a good and comfortable truck but the center U-joint on the drive shaft went bad at about 90,000 miles.  Then it went bad again at about 125,000 miles.  I hated getting rid of that truck but it was just getting too expensive to maintain.
Now I have an '08 Ford Ranger 2WD with a 4L V-6 and the "suicide doors" on both sides of the cab.  As this truck doesn't get as good a MPG as the Sonoma, it doesn't get used much.  Other than fluids, filters, and a battery, it is still all original, even the tires, as I only have about 9,800 miles on it.  I'm keeping my eyes on the tires for signs of dry rot but none is showing up - yet. 

[Perd Hapley]

I had both a 2003 and 2005 Silverado, brand new. Both of them were nightmares starting at 50,000 miles. Numerous electrical problems emerged, and on both of them, the bolt heads holding the headers to the engine started breaking off, one by one, until the headers fell off the sides of the engine. The '05, as I was driving it to a dealership to trade in, the gauges and climate control stopped working. I wouldn't take one of those heaps for free.

Is there a truck that era you'd recommend?

Apparently, the bolts breaking on those engines is well-known problem, as is the dash displays needing to be resoldered. One YouTuber I looked at even said that generation of Chevy trucks are a great engine, with a truck that falls apart all around it.

I’m still trying to get caught up on other things, so it may be another week or two before I pull the trigger. But Perd got more dum questions. Viz –

Anyone ever buy a vehicle from a distance? I’m seeing good-looking trucks in other parts of the country, and I like the idea of getting one from the sunbelt. I was wondering about finding a local garage, and then asking the seller to take it over there for a look-see. Is that a thing?

I don’t see a lot of stick shifts for sale, but would one of those be a safer bet, on an older (15-20 year old) truck?

On the dangers of a low-mileage vehicle: On a 2000s truck, I think of low mileage as 100,000 or less. Is that low enough to be wary, or are we talking 50,000?

[Brad Johnson]

Broken exhaust manifold bolt on LS engines are a known problem. There are a couple of tricks for getting them out with minimal swearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdRuc4ZbNs

Circuit Board Medics offers a flat-rate refurb on instrument clusters. I had them do the cluster in my 07 F150 to correct a known brake light issue. Was completely satisfied with their service.

https://circuitboardmedics.com/chevrolet-instrument-cluster-repair/

Also, plan on replacing the factory speakers. They were prone to cone rot. No big deal as inexpensive, quality bolt-in replacements complete with harness adapters are available from several sources. Installation is easy. Couple of screws a bolts to dismount the panels. Figure an hour or so to do all four. Worst part is dealing with the factory weather sealant. Goopy black stuff that gets everywhere if you aren't super careful.

Brad

[dogmush]

What are you looking to spend?  I bought my current truck from 200 miles away, and I bought my previous car from a dealer in Atlanta while I was in Kuwait.  It depends on the quality of the pictures they provide, how bad I want that particular vehicle, and how easy it is to back out if it looks bad when I see it.

Trucks are expensive as heck right now.  If you are in the 10-15K range, realistically, you're getting an almost 20 year old truck with a fair amount of wear and tear.  At that range, I'd find one close enough I could poke it with a stick, look for obvious issues, and grab one I liked.  All vehicle models from the early 2000's are going to have their quirks so just roll the dice on one you like.  Whatever you get is likely to need some TLC anyway.

20k ish is where I'd be willing to look for  a truck farther afield, in nice shape with the right options. 

As for models, I really like 2011 and up F150s.  Both the 3.5 ecoboost and the 5.0 are pretty decent motors without too many "bite you down the road" issues.  There's a millions of them so parts are cheap, they tend to run to 200,000 ish before anything major needs a rebuild, etc.  I don't like RAM's until they put the good transmissions in them (2019 or newer)  The third gen Silverado's seem to be holding up pretty well. A mid teens Tundra or Titan is probably fine too.

[Perd Hapley]

Circuit Board Medics offers a flat-rate refurb on instrument clusters. I had them do the cluster in my 07 F150 to correct a known brake light issue. Was completely satisfied with their service.

https://circuitboardmedics.com/chevrolet-instrument-cluster-repair/

That's pretty cool, especially the part where you can upgrade to LED for $30. Looks nice.

[Perd Hapley]

What are you looking to spend?  I bought my current truck from 200 miles away, and I bought my previous car from a dealer in Atlanta while I was in Kuwait.  It depends on the quality of the pictures they provide, how bad I want that particular vehicle, and how easy it is to back out if it looks bad when I see it.

Trucks are expensive as heck right now.  If you are in the 10-15K range, realistically, you're getting an almost 20 year old truck with a fair amount of wear and tear.  At that range, I'd find one close enough I could poke it with a stick, look for obvious issues, and grab one I liked.  All vehicle models from the early 2000's are going to have their quirks so just roll the dice on one you like.  Whatever you get is likely to need some TLC anyway.

20k ish is where I'd be willing to look for  a truck farther afield, in nice shape with the right options. 

As for models, I really like 2011 and up F150s.  Both the 3.5 ecoboost and the 5.0 are pretty decent motors without too many "bite you down the road" issues.  There's a millions of them so parts are cheap, they tend to run to 200,000 ish before anything major needs a rebuild, etc.  I don't like RAM's until they put the good transmissions in them (2019 or newer)  The third gen Silverado's seem to be holding up pretty well. A mid teens Tundra or Titan is probably fine too.

I have to keep it under 10.

Given my super-amazing mechanical know-how, I am thinking that having a mechanic give it a once-over is probably a lot better than looking at it myself. The Internet claims that some garages will do a pre-purchase inspection for you, for around $100 or so. Between that, and a good set of photos, I think I might feel OK to pull the trigger without actually seeing it.

[Declaration Day]

Is there a truck that era you'd recommend?

The best truck I owned was a '91 F-150, until I got into a catastrophic accident in which I should have died, but walked away from.  In more modern terms, I've owned trucks from all of the big three, brand new, starting with an '01 Ford.  They were all junk after 50,000 miles.

[dogmush]

The best truck I owned was a '91 F-150, until I got into a catastrophic accident in which I should have died, but walked away from.  In more modern terms, I've owned trucks from all of the big three, brand new, starting with an '01 Ford.  They were all junk after 50,000 miles.

If you can find one that's not beat to hell, my 95 F150 w/ Straight 6 went to 230k or so with me, then I sold it and I still see it ocasionally driving around 6 years later. I fixed stuff, but it was tough.

The problem is those trucks have reached "vintage" and are pretty  pricey if not rusted out crap.

[Perd Hapley]

Just wanted to bring up these questions one more time:


Anyone ever buy a vehicle from a distance? I’m seeing good-looking trucks in other parts of the country, and I like the idea of getting one from the sunbelt. I was wondering about finding a local garage, and then asking the seller to take it over there for a look-see. Is that a thing?

I don’t see a lot of stick shifts for sale, but would one of those be a safer bet, on an older (15-20 year old) truck?

On the dangers of a low-mileage vehicle: On a 2000s truck, I think of low mileage as 100,000 or less. Is that low enough to be wary, or are we talking 50,000?