Author Topic: EVs not ready for prime time?  (Read 5297 times)

Ben

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2022, 01:58:28 PM »
Maybe that's where the market is, and that's all it will ever be.. users that have a very stable routine. You do an exact x amount of miles every day, you have an unchanging x amount of down hours every day to charge... always the same, day in day out.

I've gotten sucked in to watching some of these extreme overlanding videos on youtube. I noticed there are a good number of Europeans that bring vehicles like those big ass Land Rover Defenders that they can get across the pond to do the Pan American highway. It's like all of them are vegans, and they all tout their solar and alternative energy stuff that they use for fridges and heating and whatnot, but pretty much all of them are driving diesels.  =D

I haven't seen any electric vehicles yet that can claim that they can handle offroading stuff where you're getting way off the beaten path. I mean, they'll get you there, but you won't have enough juice to get back out.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2022, 04:43:35 PM »

I haven't seen any electric vehicles yet that can claim that they can handle offroading stuff where you're getting way off the beaten path. I mean, they'll get you there, but you won't have enough juice to get back out.

https://ridebdr.com/news/bdr-partners-with-zero-motorcycles/

Quote
Seattle, WA – (October 17, 2022) Charging headfirst into the future, the adventure motorcycling non-profit Backcountry Discovery Routes® (BDR®) announced a multi-year partnership with Zero Motorcycles®, the worldwide leader in electric motorcycles and powertrains. Building on a shared vision of preserving riding opportunities and driving positive economic impact for neighboring communities, the Zero-BDR partnership includes OEM sponsorship of upcoming BDR and BDR-X routes. This exciting new alliance will raise awareness of and help grow the network of charging stations along 13 existing and future BDR routes

With its all-new DSR/X model, Zero’s impressive entry into the Adventure Bike category represents an increasingly important opportunity for adventure riders to explore the backcountry with minimal impact while taking advantage of the unmatched power delivery and reliability inherent in EV (Electric Vehicle) technology.

Potential concerns about the ability of EV bikes having the range required for true backcountry exploration will be put to the test by BDR on multi-day, long-distance scouting and filming expeditions. Most notably, the DSR/X will be challenged during the creation of the upcoming Northern California BDR (CABDR-North) and the Black Hills, SD BDR-X routes slated for release in the next two years.

 [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

Good luck getting charge infrastructure in towns like Tin Cup and Pitkin, Colorado.  Or Young or Crown King, AZ.

I've been on several 500+ mile group ADV rides in the last year, including one that was nearly 3000 miles to Wyoming and back recently.  There is no god-damned time to wait for an E-motorcycle to recharge on a ride like that.  We've all got families and jobs to get back to.

The recent one I went on that was 9 days long:
-Day 1 was Phoenix to Cortez, CO.  Nearly 500 miles.  We cut across the Navajo reservation in order to cut 75 miles off the typical route, and to have more interesting scenery.  Even if there was EV charge infrastructure somewhere in the middle of the rez, there's nowhere decent to eat and the vast majority of the rez doesn't want to cater to passers-by or travelers.  Staying at a charge point for an hour or more would be quite uncomfortable.  It was a long-ass day even with the convenience of a gas bike, and only taking 5-10 minutes to top off. 
-Days 2-6 were all sub-200 mile days, but they were off-road almost entirely.  It might have been possible for an EV to keep up on days we stayed in hotels... but we camped far more than used hotels. 
-Days 7-9 were a mix of longish highway jaunts plus 30-50 miles of offroad exploration at a time.  We came from the southern border of Wyoming back through Colorado to Gypsum, across to Moab Utah, south to Winslow Arizona, across the Rim to Young and through to Globe, and back to Phoenix.  In 3 days.

A group member on a Zero would be a massive hindrance to getting any miles done.  It would have been impossible to hit Arches like we did, or Colorado National Monument, or Rifle Falls.

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Ben

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2022, 07:27:06 AM »
Jeep is coming out with an electric CJ for 2024. Bold move if it's for the true offroad crowd*. It might end up being an urban status vehicle, depending on charging infrastructure and battery tech in '24. I don't think I'd be comfortable taking into a lot of offroad places, like BFE Northern Nevada.

*The "overlanding" type offroad crowd versus the guys who go rock crawling for a day within an hour of the McDonalds.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/classic-jeep-cj-shocking
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Hawkmoon

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2022, 08:11:22 AM »
IMHO, Jeep hasn't made a true off-road vehicle since they discontinued the TJ series of Wranglers at least a decade ago. The current Cherokees and Grand Cherokees are gadget-heavy pavement queens. The Wrangler series that replaced the TJ suffered from weak axles, and the off-road crowd immediately found that for anything other than mild fire roads the front axles needed expensive reinforcing.

The new Gladiator pickup is also gadget-heavy and aimed at being a "personal statement" vehicle rather than a true off-road vehicle.

I hold out no hope for an electric Jeep to be anything other than a toy and a novelty.
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lee n. field

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2022, 04:10:59 PM »
Jeep is coming out with an electric CJ for 2024. Bold move if it's for the true offroad crowd*. It might end up being an urban status vehicle, depending on charging infrastructure and battery tech in '24. I don't think I'd be comfortable taking into a lot of offroad places, like BFE Northern Nevada.

*The "overlanding" type offroad crowd versus the guys who go rock crawling for a day within an hour of the McDonalds.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/classic-jeep-cj-shocking

Bring along a couple Jerry cans of, what?
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Cliffh

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2022, 04:20:37 PM »
Bring along a couple Jerry cans of, what?

AA batteries.  ;)

MechAg94

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2022, 04:22:13 PM »
Bring along a couple Jerry cans of, what?
Fuel for the generator. 
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WLJ

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2022, 05:44:23 PM »
Biden: You can plug your house into your electric car
Me: It's Bourbon:30

President Joe Biden excited that you can power your house’s lights from your electric car
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Hawkmoon

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2022, 06:06:10 PM »
Jeep is coming out with an electric CJ for 2024. Bold move if it's for the true offroad crowd*. It might end up being an urban status vehicle, depending on charging infrastructure and battery tech in '24. I don't think I'd be comfortable taking into a lot of offroad places, like BFE Northern Nevada.

*The "overlanding" type offroad crowd versus the guys who go rock crawling for a day within an hour of the McDonalds.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/classic-jeep-cj-shocking

Are you sure it's for 2024?

The parking lot in front of the building where I work has a 2-vehicle EV charging station near the front entrance to the building. As I left work this evening I noticed three late-model Jeep Wranglers in the lot. I was ruminating on how many people who work there seem to drive Jeeps (there are also a number of new pseudo-Cherokees and Grand Cherokees) when it dawned on me that one of the three Wranglers was in an EV space. I did a quick turn around the lot and pulled up next to it -- sure enough, it was plugged in and charging. That was the ONLY thing that was visually different than the other Wranglers in the lot.

I had no idea that Jeep was building electric Wranglers. But ... here it is:

https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/wrangler-4xe.html
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Ben

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2022, 06:09:24 PM »
Are you sure it's for 2024?

Me? No. That's just what the article said.
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dogmush

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2022, 06:48:33 AM »
Jeep currently has a plug in hybrid Wrangler, the 4xe.

https://www.jeep.com/2022/wrangler/wrangler-4xe.html

That's probably what you saw.

Hawkmoon

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2022, 08:31:47 AM »
Jeep currently has a plug in hybrid Wrangler, the 4xe.

https://www.jeep.com/2022/wrangler/wrangler-4xe.html

That's probably what you saw.

That certainly looks like it. So it's a hybrid -- I'm not sure if that's better or worse than an all-electric vehicle (although for my purposes it probably is, depending on the range of an all-electric EV). The 21 mile-range for the Jeep in electric mode won't even get me from home to work.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2022, 08:46:52 AM »
Hmmm ...

It appears the all-electric CJ isn't a proposed vehicle, it's a rolling display/test bed for a possible "resto-mod" electric conversion kit.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/an-electric-version-of-a-beloved-vintage-jeep-shows-how-easy-converting-your-old-gas-guzzler-could-soon-be/ar-AA13Cq9k
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2022, 12:48:12 PM »
That certainly looks like it. So it's a hybrid -- I'm not sure if that's better or worse than an all-electric vehicle (although for my purposes it probably is, depending on the range of an all-electric EV). The 21 mile-range for the Jeep in electric mode won't even get me from home to work.

Some friends of mine have a hybrid Rubicon. They seem to like it but are unable to articulate why the hybrid version over a regular version. I suspect there is some virtue signaling involved.
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cordex

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2022, 12:59:55 PM »
Some friends of mine have a hybrid Rubicon. They seem to like it but are unable to articulate why the hybrid version over a regular version. I suspect there is some virtue signaling involved.
If someone believes that our current Federal policies relating to gasoline and electrical infrastructure are likely to result in either increased costs, reduced availability, or both for those commodities, having a vehicle which can take advantage of either one depending on the situation seems like a potential benefit.

I can see legitimate value in a plug-in hybrid, especially one that is able to cover most of your daily driving needs on the electrical side.

lee n. field

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2022, 01:45:38 PM »
That certainly looks like it. So it's a hybrid -- I'm not sure if that's better or worse than an all-electric vehicle (although for my purposes it probably is, depending on the range of an all-electric EV). The 21 mile-range for the Jeep in electric mode won't even get me from home to work.

My one brother has a Prius.  I don't know if the battery is worn or not, but according to him pure electric is not good for very far at all.
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Ben

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2022, 04:39:53 PM »
A 178 mile trip in 15 hours:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/first-time-ev-owner-shares-cautionary-tale-15-hours-drive-178-miles

Admittedly part of this story is in Wyoming, but that's also kind of the point. There are gonna be some empty stretches out there, as well as long stretches with slow chargers. Certainly the infrastructure will improve, but there are a lot of people that think they can do the same thing they do in their gassers, and the commission oriented e-vehicle salespeople probably aren't helping things.
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Fly320s

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2022, 08:11:01 PM »
My one brother has a Prius.  I don't know if the battery is worn or not, but according to him pure electric is not good for very far at all.

Prius is a hybrid.  Hybrid is a latin word that means "worst of both worlds."  The current generation has a 34 mile range using the battery only.
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WLJ

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2023, 01:01:43 PM »
Meanwhile

Quote
The White House issued new guidance requiring federal government employees to prioritize using electric vehicles (EV), trains and public transportation options when conducting official business.

The actions, which the White House said fulfilled President Biden's promise to "lead by example" on tackling climate change, seek to take advantage of the federal government's annual business travel purchasing power of $2.8 billion and status as the nation's largest employer. Overall, government employees on official business took more than 2.8 million flights, made 2.3 million vehicle rentals and took 33,000 rail trips last year.
Quote
Under the guidance, government employees must rent an EV on official travel when the cost of the EV is less than or equal to the most affordable comparable gas-powered vehicle available. Additionally, employees must opt for EVs when using taxis and ride-share platforms when they are cost-competitive.

Of course you got to remember what's important here, funneling more money to unions which, surprise!, predominantly vote democrat 

Quote
"These operational changes will accelerate the clean transportation transformation, increase good-paying union jobs and create healthier communities," the White House said in a statement Thursday.

White House takes action to force government workers to travel via electric vehicle, rail
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-takes-action-force-government-workers-travel-electric-vehicle-rail
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Ben

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2023, 01:06:26 PM »
Meanwhile

Of course you got to remember what's important here, funneling more money to unions which, surprise!, predominantly vote democrat 

White House takes action to force government workers to travel via electric vehicle, rail
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-takes-action-force-government-workers-travel-electric-vehicle-rail

Great. Now my tax dollars get to go to paying fed.gov drones to sit around for five hours while the E-G-ride charges. Or else taking ten hours to travel someplace by electric (or any) train when a car would have gotten them there in two.
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charby

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2023, 01:37:20 PM »
Great. Now my tax dollars get to go to paying fed.gov drones to sit around for five hours while the E-G-ride charges. Or else taking ten hours to travel someplace by electric (or any) train when a car would have gotten them there in two.

As I said before they need to come up with some univeral standard battery packs that can be swapped out at "filling stations". You don't own a battery, you just rent it. Like the Blue Rhino for propane tanks.

Pull into a bay, the battery is swapped out with a fully charged one and you're on your way.
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MillCreek

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2023, 02:22:14 PM »
^^^Endorse, endorse, endorse!  A group in Asia is trying to come up with a uniform standard of swappable scooter/motorcycle batteries.  It would be great if that makes it over here.
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dogmush

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2023, 02:27:02 PM »
It's just virtue signaling for Beltway Cocktail parties.  There's nowhere in the US you can rent an EV for less than the economy POS you are required to rent.  Similarly, no one is going to AMTRAK across the country, because trains don't meet the travel time requirements and so are unauthorized. Little to no Fed.gov travel will change under this.

Perd Hapley

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2023, 02:31:03 PM »
Prius is a hybrid.  Hybrid is a latin word that means "worst of both worlds."  The current generation has a 34 mile range using the battery only.

I've not heard that one before, so I thank you.

It's way past time fed.gov employees were barred from using internal combustion vehicles altogether. Or firearms.
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charby

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Re: EVs not ready for prime time?
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2023, 02:32:34 PM »
^^^Endorse, endorse, endorse!  A group in Asia is trying to come up with a uniform standard of swappable scooter/motorcycle batteries.  It would be great if that makes it over here.

Having some sort of cheap 4-seater glorified electric golf cart with a top speed of 30-35mph (and limited to such streets) for small city/suburbanites would make sense too, keep the gas or bigger electric vehicle for leaving town. I live in a town on 25k and something like that would fit for the majority of the people just for day to day in town driving. I have 3 roads withing city limits that are over 35mph. One stretch is 45mph for about 3/4 mile to Walmart and a small shopping center. that could easily have the speed reduced from 45-35 for that 3/4 mile. The other roads are in a more rural, aka farm fields and industrial part of town. 
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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