How was your flight?

[BobR]

I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

[WLJ]

I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

I'm looking but so far only a fuzzy video image and not as much as you would think.
Had to take a screen shot

[dogmush]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

[Northwoods]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

Yep.  A350 pilot error and ground controller error.

[Hawkmoon]

I expect Mentour Pilot, 74Gear, and/or Juan Browne to cover this incident on YouTube rather soon.

In fact -- here's Brownie now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95S6dQSga8

[WLJ]

Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910

[Hawkmoon]

Singapore Airlines emergency: Pilot's disturbing theory on plane's 6,000ft plunge - as eight Aussies are put in hospital following horror air incident that killed a British man
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13444903/Singapore-Airlines-emergency-pilot-disturbing-theory-plunge-eight-Australians-hospital.html

The man's an idiot. His further statements about that area being known for turbulance refutes his own argument.

'It's regarded as an exceptionally well-built machine in the piloting and aviation fraternity and for turbulence to have had this effect on a triple-seven it must have been really quite severe,' he told Sky News.

One of my cousins (now deceased) was a career flight attendant for a major U.S. airline. Years and years ago (at least 30 years, I believe) she was seriously injured in just such an incident. She was out of work on convalescent leave for the better part of a year, and she had constant back pain even after returning to work. She eventually had to take an early retirement because of the effects of her injuries.

She was on a 747.

It doesn't matter how big or "sturdy" an aircraft is. When it hits a hole in the air, it drops. The good news is that the wings didn't come off when the plane hit the bottom of the hole in the air.

[Hawkmoon]

Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910

I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.

[WLJ]

I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.

What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?

[Hawkmoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus.

Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).

[Hawkmoon]

What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?

"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.

[Northwoods]

Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).

Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.

[WLJ]

"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.

noun

    the act of colliding; a coming violently into contact; crash:

    the collision of two airplanes.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/collision

And from a legal site

In legal terms, a collision refers to an accident where a vehicle hits another vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or stationary object like a tree or pole. The key element in this definition is the concept of an ‘accident’, which implies an unforeseen and unplanned event.

https://www.thewilsonpc.com/glossary/what-are-collision-legal-aspects/

[WLJ]

Never mind, you were referring to him using the word collided and I got it crossed up in my head you were criticizing my use of the word collision

[Northwoods]

In terms of dividing fault, A350 pilot gets the most. Regardless of any clearance given the pilot is responsible for safe operations. And in a ground collision if one is stationary and one is in motion, fault goes mostly to the one in motion.

A good bit of fault, though less than to the A350 pilot, goes to the ground controller. Their whole job is to know where all aircraft are in real time, required separations, and to maintain safe flow of ground traffic.  They should have seen the CRJ holding short of the correct position and told them to pull forward to the holding line.

CRJ pilot gets a small share of the fault for stopping short of where they should have.

[Hawkmoon]

Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.

I don't disagree. And I suspect the A350 pilot knows that, which may explain why in the audio of the incident he immediately announced that he was on the centerline. [Crisis management, Step one: deflect blame.]