Author Topic: How was your flight?  (Read 22396 times)

BobR

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #175 on: September 10, 2024, 03:45:02 PM »
I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #176 on: September 10, 2024, 03:59:05 PM »
I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

I'm looking but so far only a fuzzy video image and not as much as you would think.
Had to take a screen shot

« Last Edit: September 10, 2024, 04:11:34 PM by WLJ »
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dogmush

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #177 on: September 10, 2024, 07:10:44 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

Northwoods

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #178 on: September 10, 2024, 07:34:11 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

Yep.  A350 pilot error and ground controller error.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #179 on: September 10, 2024, 08:47:18 PM »
I expect Mentour Pilot, 74Gear, and/or Juan Browne to cover this incident on YouTube rather soon.

In fact -- here's Brownie now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95S6dQSga8
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2024, 07:56:12 AM »
Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 11:31:32 AM by WLJ »
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #181 on: September 11, 2024, 11:27:41 AM »
Singapore Airlines emergency: Pilot's disturbing theory on plane's 6,000ft plunge - as eight Aussies are put in hospital following horror air incident that killed a British man
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13444903/Singapore-Airlines-emergency-pilot-disturbing-theory-plunge-eight-Australians-hospital.html



The man's an idiot. His further statements about that area being known for turbulance refutes his own argument.

Quote
'It's regarded as an exceptionally well-built machine in the piloting and aviation fraternity and for turbulence to have had this effect on a triple-seven it must have been really quite severe,' he told Sky News.

One of my cousins (now deceased) was a career flight attendant for a major U.S. airline. Years and years ago (at least 30 years, I believe) she was seriously injured in just such an incident. She was out of work on convalescent leave for the better part of a year, and she had constant back pain even after returning to work. She eventually had to take an early retirement because of the effects of her injuries.

She was on a 747.

It doesn't matter how big or "sturdy" an aircraft is. When it hits a hole in the air, it drops. The good news is that the wings didn't come off when the plane hit the bottom of the hole in the air.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #182 on: September 11, 2024, 11:33:44 AM »
Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910

I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #183 on: September 11, 2024, 11:36:09 AM »
I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.

What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #184 on: September 11, 2024, 02:49:16 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus.

Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #185 on: September 11, 2024, 02:54:28 PM »
What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?

"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.
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Northwoods

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #186 on: September 11, 2024, 02:55:05 PM »
Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).

Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.
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WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #187 on: September 11, 2024, 02:58:58 PM »
"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.

Quote
noun

    the act of colliding; a coming violently into contact; crash:

    the collision of two airplanes.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/collision

And from a legal site
Quote
In legal terms, a collision refers to an accident where a vehicle hits another vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or stationary object like a tree or pole. The key element in this definition is the concept of an ‘accident’, which implies an unforeseen and unplanned event.
https://www.thewilsonpc.com/glossary/what-are-collision-legal-aspects/

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #188 on: September 11, 2024, 03:03:05 PM »
Never mind, you were referring to him using the word collided and I got it crossed up in my head you were criticizing my use of the word collision
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 05:01:33 PM by WLJ »
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Northwoods

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #189 on: September 11, 2024, 03:04:26 PM »
In terms of dividing fault, A350 pilot gets the most. Regardless of any clearance given the pilot is responsible for safe operations. And in a ground collision if one is stationary and one is in motion, fault goes mostly to the one in motion.

A good bit of fault, though less than to the A350 pilot, goes to the ground controller. Their whole job is to know where all aircraft are in real time, required separations, and to maintain safe flow of ground traffic.  They should have seen the CRJ holding short of the correct position and told them to pull forward to the holding line.

CRJ pilot gets a small share of the fault for stopping short of where they should have.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #190 on: September 11, 2024, 09:06:24 PM »
Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.

I don't disagree. And I suspect the A350 pilot knows that, which may explain why in the audio of the incident he immediately announced that he was on the centerline. [Crisis management, Step one: deflect blame.]
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230RN

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #191 on: October 12, 2024, 11:11:43 PM »
...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2024, 03:59:47 AM by 230RN »


WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #193 on: November 17, 2024, 11:38:05 AM »
Real or not IDK but  :rofl: anyway

https://x.com/DisrespectedThe/status/1858014068084453861

If real this may have been what triggered it

Passengers speak after Southwest Airlines plane hit by gunfire at Dallas Love Field Airport
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/gun-shots-fired-near-dallas-love-field-airport-plane-struck/3699053/

« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 11:53:57 AM by WLJ »
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

WLJ

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #194 on: November 17, 2024, 11:49:47 AM »
Okay, it's real but from 4 years ago so not related to the shooting

Hot mic: Airline pilot caught cussing out liberals while landing in San Jose
https://wreg.com/news/hot-mic-airline-pilot-caught-cussing-out-liberals-while-landing-in-san-jose/amp/

Title to the the above link has an error as the article says the plane was "flying out of.." and not landing.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Hawkmoon

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #195 on: November 17, 2024, 02:37:29 PM »
Passengers speak after Southwest Airlines plane hit by gunfire at Dallas Love Field Airport
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/gun-shots-fired-near-dallas-love-field-airport-plane-struck/3699053/

Seriously?

Quote
“I had my son with me. He was sitting in the window seat... And we were just in row 13. So, we were pretty close to the cockpit," Shannon said.

Row 13 is over the wings.  A 737-800 is 129'-7" long and the wings are about halfway back. In this context, I don't think 60 feet away is really "pretty close." To be candid, if somebody is shooting at airplanes I would prefer not to be in that airplane at all, but in this context I think the statement is ridiculous.

And then this dude -- an "aviation expert." I drive a car every day -- that doesn't make me an "automotive expert."

Quote
"So, my first thought is like, 'Holy cow, somebody just shot a gun and it hit a commercial aircraft!" said Armen Kurdian, a retired Navy captain and Naval flight officer.

He said investigators will start by figuring out where the bullet came from.

"So, what was the orientation of the aircraft when it was actually hit? How deep did the bullet penetrate? That'll tell you what its speed was. And that'll give you an idea of the range from which it was fired," he said.

:duh:

Quote
Kurdian said they'll also be looking into whether or not the shot was intentional.

"The fact that it hit so very close to the cockpit seems too much of a coincidence. The odds of that happening, I think, got to be really, really high," he said.

That's an idiotic statement. If it was accidental, the odds against hitting a taxiing aircraft at all are astronomical.

Quote
Kurdian said the damage could be wide-ranging, from something benign, like a light switch not working, to the GPS not working.

"Now, if it hits something more vital, say like a hydraulic system, then the pilots would be alerted rather quickly that there would be... a pressure drop in the hydraulic system," he explained.

He said aircraft have a lot of backups, and it's likely a bullet to the cockpit would not have caused a crash.

Another :duh:

Quote
But he said it all still opens a security vulnerability.

"Did this put an idea into, say, a non-state or a state actor as, 'Oh, maybe this is something we can do to disrupt air travel'?" Kurdian said.

He said it's prudent for the airport and other agencies to consider safety measures.

Like they haven't ever considered security measures before.

This is the level to which "journalism" has fallen. They're in a rush to put out a story, they need some authority figure to give them some verbiage they can quote to show they've done their homework, and somebody on the team says, Hey, I know a guy who used to fly in the Navy. I'll ask him."
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BobR

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Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #196 on: November 17, 2024, 03:04:55 PM »
^^^^^^

He was an E2 NFO (Naval Flight Officer), non-pilot. He knows things, but then again, so do I. ;)

bob