Israel Under Attack

[dogmush]

Honestly that'd be a pretty tricky shot with an AR-15.  Ranging the guy, accounting for angle of shot, estimating lateral movement and leading....doable, but tricky.

Something like a dual M2 or one of those old quad 1.1" autocannons would be pretty solid for that falling formation. M240B at minimum.   

[Big Hairy Bee]

3 1/2 inch magnum 00 buck?

[zxcvbob]

Honestly that'd be a pretty tricky shot with an AR-15.  Ranging the guy, accounting for angle of shot, estimating lateral movement and leading....doable, but tricky.

Something like a dual M2 or one of those old quad 1.1" autocannons would be pretty solid for that falling formation. M240B at minimum.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_Multiple_Gun_Motor_Carriage

[WLJ]

We have our very own version of Hamas here and they call themselves the Proud Boys
Yeah, wake me when they raid a community and start killing everyone in it including the babies.

    Sunny Hostin: "I think we all know Hamas has been designated a terror organization just like many other terror organizations have this designation, like the Proud Boys here in the United States." pic.twitter.com/BdNXgaWC01
    — David Rutz (@DavidRutz) October 13, 2023

The View's Sonny Hostin says the US has its own version of Hamas
https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/10/13/the-views-sonny-hostin-says-the-us-has-its-own-version-of-hamas-n2388511

[HankB]

We have our very own version of Hamas here and they call themselves the Proud Boys
Yeah, wake me when they raid a community and start killing everyone in it including the babies.

The View's Sonny Hostin says the US has its own version of Hamas
https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/10/13/the-views-sonny-hostin-says-the-us-has-its-own-version-of-hamas-n2388511

Sounds like Sonny is confusing the Proud Boys with the BLM/Antifa crowd.

[Ron]

Sounds like Sonny is confusing the Proud Boys with the BLM/Antifa crowd.

Sounds like Sonny is purposefully confusing the people that pay attention to the view.

Weaponized media.

[Ben]

Sounds like Sonny is purposefully confusing the people that pay attention to the view.

Weaponized media.

People who pay attention to the view are a lost cause.

[Angel Eyes]

Sounds like Sonny is purposefully confusing the people that pay attention to the view.

... and how difficult would that be?

[Angel Eyes]

Other than one stabbing in France, the "Day of Jihad" appears to be a bust.

[Jim147]

There was one in China also. Israeli embassy employee.

[AZRedhawk44]

3 1/2 inch magnum 00 buck?

Only if you want to wait for them to be within 100 yards of the ground.

[dogmush]

3 1/2 inch magnum 00 buck?

I was thinking more Oerlikon. 2A protects the weapons we need to defend America, right?  Apparently that now means having the avility to down paragliders.

[cordex]

I was thinking more Oerlikon. 2A protects the weapons we need to defend America, right?  Apparently that now means having the avility to down paragliders.

We have already been told by our President that it should include F-15s and nuclear weapons, so that seems legit.

[Ben]

A-10s for everybody!

[HankB]

A-10s for everybody!

Attack aircraft for everyone . . . reminds me of something I remember seeing on TV.

Couple of decades back, Pepsi was passing out premium points with every purchase, and they ran a commercial saying that if you had X points you'd get a prize, 2X points would get you a better prize, etc.

And they wound up their commercial saying you'd get a Harrier Jump Jet for 7,000,000 points.

Somebody DID accumulate 7,000,000 points and demanded their jump jet. Case went to court, and a judge ruled for the company, basically saying that - despite the absence of a disclaimer -  Pepsi in their ad "was just kidding" and didn't have to honor their ad.

https://readysteadycut.com/2022/11/21/did-anyone-get-the-harrier-jet-from-pepsi/

[Tuco]

Pepsi Jump Jet Case

And that is why I haven't given up on the internet. Yet.
Good read. Thank you for the link.

[WLJ]

How long before it can be said Israel has gone too far? Outwardly they seem to be out for blood at the moment, can they keep it under control?
Yes I know there are those saying that already but many of those say that anytime Israel shoots back

[dogmush]

How long before it can be said Israel has gone too far? Outwardly they seem to be out for blood at the moment, can they keep it under control?
Yes I know there are those saying that already but many of those say that anytime Israel shoots back

That's going to depend heavily on the preconceived notions (and sometimes financial connections) of the person making the statement.

If you forced me to make a call, I'd probably say that Israel is morally justified in military operations until they have removed Hamas' ability to wage war against them with anything more than small arms.  So Rocket assembly points and staging areas, hardened command centers, weapons and explosive stockpiles, all that stuff.  If israel wants to take it all out, I can see their justification.  In the real world that probably means ground invasion of Gaza, occupation for 6 or so months while they track everything down and destroy it, and asymmetrical city fighting to accomplish the mission.  I'd bet 200,000 or so dead by the end, if the IDF is even capable of it.

If they go beyond that to something like ethnic cleansing, they've gone too far.

[Boomhauer]

Attack aircraft for everyone . . . reminds me of something I remember seeing on TV.

Couple of decades back, Pepsi was passing out premium points with every purchase, and they ran a commercial saying that if you had X points you'd get a prize, 2X points would get you a better prize, etc.

And they wound up their commercial saying you'd get a Harrier Jump Jet for 7,000,000 points.

Somebody DID accumulate 7,000,000 points and demanded their jump jet. Case went to court, and a judge ruled for the company, basically saying that - despite the absence of a disclaimer -  Pepsi in their ad "was just kidding" and didn't have to honor their ad.

https://readysteadycut.com/2022/11/21/did-anyone-get-the-harrier-jet-from-pepsi/

I remember the commercial and the court case both happened when I was a kid

[Ron]

Like most of you I've lived my whole life with my sympathies being towards Israel in regards to the Arab/Israel conflict.

As my understanding of the world has broadened, unfortunately pretty late in life, I find geopolitical issues are always more complicated and nuanced than I was led to believe.

There are only so many potential outcomes. These are what I see as probable in the broadest low resolution terms.

• Some type arrangement between the Palestinians and Israel is reached where they each have their own land, where they are ethnically dominant and in charge of their own affairs.
  
  Israel and its backers (the west) takes the whole region by force and Arab Palestine ceases to exist.
  
  Palestine and it's backers take the whole region by force and Israel as a nation loses its land.   
  
  That region remains in perpetual low grade warfare with occasional larger conflagrations but the status quo remains in place during our lifetimes. 
  

Each one of the ones I've listed have immediate, secondary and even more downstream impacts on the USA.

I've personally resigned myself to the latter outcome. Obviously the first one listed is ideal but is dependent on good faith actors all the way around. I'm not seeing any good faith actors, including us. 

My position is I don't support sending dogmush and his colleagues to potentially die defending, or supporting offensive actions in Israel.

[WLJ]

Israeli style karma

Palestinian pizzeria uses image of kidnapped grandmother in an advert. The Israelis decided to pay the pizzeria a visit with a bulldozer

The Eiffel Bakery and Supermarket posted an apology Facebook, which said that it was not aware of the source of the photograph.

Sure Jan

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12630141/Israelis-raze-Palestinian-pizzeria-ground-used-picture-kidnapped-grandmother-mocking-advert.html

[cordex]

That's going to depend heavily on the preconceived notions (and sometimes financial connections) of the person making the statement.

This entirely.

If they go beyond that to something like ethnic cleansing, they've gone too far.

Given Hamas’ preference of using civilians as human shields and the Palestinian population’s willingness to protect their terrorists, I worry that even if Israel legitimately tries to avoid ethnic cleansing (and to be clear, I am not convinced of that given their current thirst for blood) it will be hard to distinguish by appearance and outcome the legitimate operations to root out Hamas and ethnic cleansing.

[WLJ]

That region remains in perpetual low grade warfare with occasional larger conflagrations but the status quo remains in place during our lifetimes. 

As it has for the past 3-4 thousand years, wiping Israel off the map  isn't going to change that. Most Arabs of the region have a tribal mindset and drawing lines on a map and raising national flags hasn't changed that. Even if you took all the guns away and Israel suddenly disappeared they would go back to throwing rocks to each other like they always have.

[Ron]

As it has for the past 3-4 thousand years, wiping Israel off the map  isn't going to change that. Most Arabs of the region have a tribal mindset and drawing lines on a map and raising national flags hasn't changed that. Even if you took all the guns away and Israel suddenly disappeared they would go back to throwing rocks to each other like they always have.

Humans are tribal by our nature.

I'm thinking we've been raised in a defacto empire and don't view the world the way most humans do. We can't even muster up enough support to protect our own borders due to the deracination and detribalisation of our thinking processes in the west. The tribalists destroy empires due to their cohesiveness, and the unstable conditions of competing factions within empires. It's just a matter of time I'm thinking.

[Pb]

Humans are tribal by our nature.

Yes... and the Western world is extremely atypical in that it is not very tribal at all.  Which explains why we are willing to take immigrants from the most horrible cultures on Earth, and to pretend that they are just like us.  Witness the massive demonstrations in support of Hamas in some Western cities.

The immigration policies in the West are suicidal.