Second Amendment/ATF related issues (Discussion thread)

[Live Life]

Do it now.

National Association for Gun Rights - https://x.com/NatlGunRights/status/1894912153104326995

Right now, UN State Dept. Rep. William Malzahn is in Geneva for the UN Small Arms Treaty meetings—DESPITE laws barring taxpayer dollars from funding this treaty.

@WhiteHouse / @elonmusk / @realDonaldTrump it’s time to yank his keister home NOW.

Brandon Herrera - https://x.com/TheAKGuy/status/1894939493825945960

Hey @DOGE, I’ve got something for you guys to look into.

[Live Life]

NAGR - Right now, UN State Dept. Rep. William Malzahn is in Geneva for the UN Small Arms Treaty meetings—DESPITE laws barring taxpayer dollars from funding this treaty.

@WhiteHouse / @elonmusk / @realDonaldTrump it’s time to yank his keister home NOW.

Do it now.

Done.

National Association for Gun Rights - https://x.com/NatlGunRights/status/1895542152849211687

BREAKING: We’re hearing that State Department employee William Malzahn has just been yanked from the floor of the Arms Trade Treaty meetings in Geneva.

Your pressure worked.

The U.S. has no business sending delegates to support the UN “Small Arms Treaty”!

[Live Life]

Great point by justice Alito from Supreme Court arguments.

Gun Owners Foundation - https://x.com/GunFoundation/status/1897048834972565766

Justice Alito asks Mexico’s lawyers: "Is this a one-way street?"

With corrupt Mexican officials fueling crime that spills into the U.S., why couldn’t one of the 50 states sue Mexico for the death & destruction caused here?

[Live Life]

Trump issued an executive order instructing Bondi to review actions to address the right to keep and bear arms and present a plan to the White House after 30 days.

... Kash Patel as acting ATF director

SAF/Adam Kraut - https://x.com/theadamkraut/status/1896599009088983320

"Snope distributed for conference again."

Redistributed for 3/7 conference.

Next week could be very exciting for Second Amendment as report back to President Trump for Second Amendment "plan of action" for Executive Order is due.  Also, we could hear something positive regarding Snope/Ocean State Tactical which have been relisted multiple times.
More popcorn. 

Here are thoughts from some others ...

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1898414344372953265
 
Bondi is due to report back to Trump tomorrow - or maybe Monday because tomorrow is a Sunday, if they treat this like court deadlines.

She better have reached real substantive progress and decisions, and not the 2A equivalent of her "Epstein binders" and a punt.  I've been willing to give Bondi a chance while others in the gun rights sphere have been critical, but it's now put up or shut up time.

Also, let me dream for a minute, as unlikely as it is:

Imagine if in the morning on Monday SCOTUS grants cert in Snope, then later that day, we get word that DOJ is nuking a bunch of Biden ATF rules and ceasing its defense in various court cases. Be still my heart!

A lovely daydream. May it come true.

Gun Owners of America - https://x.com/GunOwners/status/1898433786146373872

"The Second Amendment is an indispensable safeguard of security and liberty."

This is the opening line of President Trump's 2A executive order. If you were @AGPamBondi, what would you include in your report?

Firearms Policy Coalition - https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1898380760991641756

GM…☕️

Except to ATF, an agency that has done nothing but leave a trail of death and destruction in its wake ever since its inception.

Never forgive. Never forget.

[Live Life]

Waiting game continues ...

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1899090915966534068

The torture continues. No Snope news.

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1899165166660735330

Looks like no orders list next Monday so we get a week off before being let down again. Wooo.

[dogmush]

Hey remember when I posted that Trump wasn't a great friend to the 2A, and we should wait before we got excited?  And it was brought up so often that a former NAGR guy was a White House Counsel so many times that we needed to start a whole "discussion" thread?

Yeah, Pam Bondi, in her role as AG, has filed a response against NAGR claiming that non firearms parts that were wrongly confiscated by ATF can not be returned without a background check.

http://www.https://mrgunsngear.org/4kLZgvQ

Plaintiffs “disagree with the need, and possibly even the legality of running background checks” prior to the return of seized FRT-15s and WOTs to eligible individuals. Pls.’Notice at 3 n.1. But this Court unequivocally excluded individuals prohibited from possessing firearms from the scope of its injunction. Order at 60, ECF No. 100 (“[T]his injunctive relief shall not extend to any individual prohibited from possessing firearms under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g).”). Accordingly, background checks prior to the return of seized FRT-15s and WOTs are necessary to ensure that Defendants do not return the devices to individuals prohibited from possessing firearms, as this Court’s Order contemplated.

It should be noted as well that the DOJ is still actively prosecuting a guy for having an illegal machine gun because his FRT might be a little different than the two they lost a court case over.

Fourth, Plaintiffs claim that Defendants “continue to rely on the illegal classification of FRTs as machineguns,” pointing to two criminal prosecutions in the United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico. Pls.’ Notice at 4-5. But as Defendants have explained repeatedly, prosecutions and other enforcement actions are not undertaken on the basis of any “illegal classification” because ATF’s classification does not carry binding legal effect apart from the statute. SeeDefs.’ Opp. to Mot. for Order to Show Cause at 18, ECF No. 118; Defs.’ Mem. inSupp. of Mot. for Stay at 5, ECF No. 105. And one of those prosecutions does not even implicate the FRTs at issue in this case. See Pls.’ Notice at 4 (noting that “United States argued that the FRTs at issue in that case (Alamo-15 FRTs) might be different from the FRT-15 or WOT”).

[/b]

David Warrington sure is doing the Lord's Work over there in the White House.

[Live Life]

Pam Bondi, in her role as AG, has filed a response against NAGR claiming that non firearms parts that were wrongly confiscated by ATF can not be returned without a background check.

David Warrington sure is doing the Lord's Work over there in the White House.

Depending on what can be pinned on David Warrington, NAGR could gain new members or lose their membership in a blink, just like NRA.   

We are watching ...

[Live Life]

We are watching ...

AG Pam Bondi's 30 day report in response to President Trump's executive order on Second Amendment was due on March 9th but it was extended to today, March 16th - https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ag-bondi-report-back-trump-biden-policies-infringe/story?id=119678797
Will be interesting to see what's in the report ... 

"We will win Snope and Ocean State Tactical ... And the justices KNOW THAT"

Republicans Control Everything... SO WHERE ARE THE 2A WINS? (featuring Toby Leary ‪@CapeGunWorks‬ ) Republicans control the House, Senate, the White House and have 6 originalist justices on the Supreme Court. Mark Smith, Four Boxes Diner, discusses why we haven't seen more progress on the 2nd Amendment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw

0:00 The 2A Trifecta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw
3:01 Why Does SCOTUS Ignore Important 2A Cases - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw&t=181s
7:40 Justice Roberts Prioritizes Other Types of Cases - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw&t=460s
10:40 How Are Cert Grants Decided - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw&t=640s
13:45 Other Considerations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpaZZQm1Fw&t=825s

[dogmush]

[Ben]

Guns & Gadgets sometimes makes mountains out of molehills, so I'm not sure about this video he put out today. Maybe somebody can explain it to me like I'm a five year old.

https://youtu.be/XK4nYbJqt6c

Would suppressors not being classified as firearms or as part of the second amendment necessarily be a bad thing? On the one hand, yeah, if they don't have constitutional protections, then individual states could come up with their own regulations. So some states may, or may continue to ban them, while other states would let you walk into a store and buy them the same as you buy a gallon of milk.

G&G makes the argument that this ruling, essentially making a suppressor an accessory, could lead to a slippery slope of individual states, cities, etc. not only restricting suppressors, but other "gun accessories", like optics, as well.

I don't know enough about this ruling to have an informed opinion either way. Thoughts?

[dogmush]

There is no reason to think that cans not being "Arms" under the 2A would remove them from the NFA.  The two are not connected.

The Feds can (and will) continue ue to restrict them.  It's actually worse, because if the rest of the NFA falls on 2A grounds, now there's case law the suppressors can stay restricted.

[Live Life]

Maybe somebody can explain it to me like I'm a five year old

... suppressors not being classified as firearms or as part of the second amendment

Statement "that silencers are NOT arms & are NOT protected by the Second Amendment" was made by Biden-era holdover acting US Attorney Michael Simpson on 3/17.

Yesterday, Robert Leider was hired as Assistant Director/Chief Counsel for ATF and today DOJ requested 30 days to "... reconsider its incorrect position that suppressors are not arms and are not protected by the Second Amendment." 👍 - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1469390#msg1469390
Michael Simpson might be packing his cubicle into a box as we speak.

[Live Life]

Statement "that silencers are NOT arms & are NOT protected by the Second Amendment" was made by Biden-era holdover acting US Attorney Michael Simpson on 3/17.

Yesterday, Robert Leider was hired as Assistant Director/Chief Counsel for ATF and today DOJ requested 30 days to "... reconsider its incorrect position that suppressors are not arms and are not protected by the Second Amendment." 👍 - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1469390#msg1469390

More discussion on topic by Mark Smith.

Mark Smith - https://x.com/fourboxesdiner/status/1902878382502637623

As I explained several times, there was a zero percent chance that the Acting US Attorney from Louisiana’s brief to Fifth Circuit was going to matter to Trump’s 2A suppressor position. SG John Sauer will decide the question for DOJ. I know some folks get upset when I say “relax this doesn’t matter” but it’s often true.

Steve Busby:

But help me understand all the legal maneuvering…  After reconsidering, can the DOJ just say “Nevermind, ignore that USA’s brief”?  i.e. in practical terms, how do they undo his damage?

Mark Smith:

No damage done. The Fifth Circuit judges are sophisticated. They understand.

Steve Busby:

So they just file an additional brief with their new position?

Mark Smith:

Right

[Live Life]

It's a new day at ATF.

Dan Bongino - https://x.com/FBIDDBongino/status/1902897279284977995

Paid a visit to the ATF today. It’s a new era — one where Americans will be kept safe and their Constitutional rights will be protected.

The White House - https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1902902359467995602

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. 🇺🇸

National Association for Gun Rights - https://x.com/NatlGunRights/status/1902928072451743994

Gun owners have high hopes—and even higher expectations.

We have the opportunity to reverse decades of abuse and neglect of the Second Amendment.

Let’s make it happen.

[dogmush]

It's a new day at ATF.

I patiently await the stolen FRTs to be returned by the ATF, papers filed to overturn Patrick Adamaik's conviction, public destruction of the digital 4473 copies agents have been making for years, the end of spurious trace requests to small FFLs, or really ANY sign whatsoever it's a new day at the ATF.

But sure is a good photo op.

[Ben]

I'm just hoping for them to start with a quick and easy one for them to give us all, like being able to put a stock on the back of my 11" gun (whether it's a rifle or pistol).

[Live Life]

I patiently await ... really ANY sign whatsoever it's a new day at the ATF.

I'm just hoping for them to start with a quick and easy one for them to give us all, like being able to put a stock on the back of my 11" gun (whether it's a rifle or pistol).

Trump did say, "The best is yet to come".

It's been only two months ... give him and his administration time.

And remember, head/founder of NAGR is now Trump's Chief Counsel and I bet he has Trump's ear.

National Association for Gun Rights - https://x.com/NatlGunRights/status/1902928072451743994

Gun owners have high hopes—and even higher expectations.

We have the opportunity to reverse decades of abuse and neglect of the Second Amendment.

Let’s make it happen.

[Ben]

It's been only two months ... give him and his administration time.

This is true, but gun rights was big on the campaign trail, and he did a bunch of other stuff his first two months (even first two days). He doesn't have to overhaul everything in the first couple of months, but getting one easy thing that is big with gunowners done would be a big PR move.

He had a bunch of other EOs all ready to go on day one based on pre-election prep. He really could have done at least one for guns. Like either the aforementioned "a brace is a stock is a stock is a brace and it doesn't $%^^* matter" thing, or even if he couldn't remove tax stamps he could have done something like "$1 tax stamps while we look into it".

[dogmush]

This is true, but gun rights was big on the campaign trail, and he did a bunch of other stuff his first two months (even first two days). He doesn't have to overhaul everything in the first couple of months, but getting one easy thing that is big with gunowners done would be a big PR move.

He had a bunch of other EOs all ready to go on day one based on pre-election prep. He really could have done at least one for guns. Like either the aforementioned "a brace is a stock is a stock is a brace and it doesn't $%^^* matter" thing, or even if he couldn't remove tax stamps he could have done something like "$1 tax stamps while we look into it".

Apparently the ATF CAN waive the tax completely.  They did it for the pistol brace free registration thing.  They could have been ordered to stop collecting all NFA taxes.  They could just....stop fighting the edge cases in court.  Instead Pam Bondi is attempting to keep illegally seized FRTs.

[Live Life]

I think contents of AG Pam Bondi's response report to Second Amendment Executive Order will be telling what's going to happen.

AG Bondi proposing restoration of gun rights is one thing - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1469281#msg1469281

Hiring Robert Leider as ATF Assistant Director/Chief Counsel who wants to "extensively reform ATF" is another - https://www.atf.gov/about/leadership

Doing an about face 180 less than 24 hours from hiring Robert Leider as Chief Counsel on ATF's position on silencers for US v. Peterson is definitely another - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1469390#msg1469390

And acting director Patel reassigned ATF enforcement officers to immigration enforcement.

To me, stars and planets are aligning and things are clicking into place for Second Amendment. 

[dogmush]

They're jerking you off bro.

The question you should be asking is what are they lining up during these little reach around photo ops.

[Live Life]

I have suffered decades as "second class citizen" living in CA watching my Second Amendment "second class" right erode away.

Events I have watched last two months unfold give me brightest hope of "permanent enforcement" for Second Amendment as various bills are introduced/reintroduced with chance of actually becoming laws to be signed by Trump.

Sure, there are concerns regarding Bondi's past but we haven't seen her report yet and things are still falling into place like Robert Leider just being hired to gut and "extensively reform" ATF.

After decades of suffering, I am more than willing to make more popcorn and enjoy the unfolding show from the sidelines as show just started.

[dogmush]

What 2A bill do you think has a snowball's chance in Heck of beating the Fillibuster in the Senate?

[Live Life]

Had Hillary won in 2016, Bruen would not have happened as Supreme Court make up would be very different and we would not even be contemplating topics of what's possible discussion right now.

We dodged a bullet, quite literally, and here we are now able to consider possibilities.

I consider this much better than what could have happened.

Let's first see what's in Bondi's report and go from there.

[dogmush]

Let me expound a little, so it doesn't seem like I'm being all black pilled for no reason.

Neither Trump, nor Bondi, nor Johnson in the House really give a *expletive deleted*ck about the 2A. Their past actions have proven it.  Trump's current actions are clearly showing that what his priorities are (cutting waste, cutting .gov employees, securing the border)  Meanwhile Dems are doing everything they can to rile their base up and "Weapons of War!!!" is still a winner with that base (ref: David Hogg).  So the R's are unlikely to waste a bunch of political capital on 2A stuff, when overall it's already doing better than it has in years, and it's not even their top 5 priorities.  The D's however will pull out al the stops to block 2A legislation so they can send hysterical fundraising e-mails to their base about Trump killing minorities.

You might see some small amount of EO action if it costs Trump nothing, but the current DOJ not dropping cases that are clearly erroneous shows how little they are going to give us.  The only "win" we have gotten from Trump 2.0 is that the DOJ is backtracking that Suppressors aren't "arms".  Goody?  They will still be regulated? woo?

It is MORE likely, IMO that Hakeem Jeffries will come up with some anti gun measure to give his base, and offer it to Trump as a deal combined with stopping trans puppet shows in Botswana or whatever, and Trump will throw us under the bus to get a legislative DOGE win.