EVs not ready for prime time?

[Boomhauer]

That's exactly why they stipulate it though... because it's much harder to put it in later. It reminds me of when a previous work building put in waterless urinals, but the plumbing code required running water lines, stubbing through the drywall, and capping them. So the next building tenant wouldn't have to do major wall surgery to put in normal urinals.

The problem with charging infrastructure is that stuff costs money and nobody has figured out who is supposed to pay. Hopefully businesses will start to view it as an amenity and do it voluntarily, but so far there's not much money to be made because nobody wants to burst the FSA's bubble by charging for electricity what it realistically costs, so no profit, so no charging.

What kind of *expletive deleted*ing idiot has running water available and puts in those disgusting waterless urinals?

[zahc]

What would businesses say if we asked them to provide free gasoline pumps?  Or a free 5 gallons for customers or employees?  I somehow doubt that would be accepted. 

I haven't looked.  Are a lot of the charging stations free or do they require payment?

Precedent is set in the case of electrical infrastructure. You don't get to decide the amps of your main breaker panel, how many receptacles your interior or exterior will have, etc.

I just ran a dedicated circuit for a "convenience receptacle" near my air conditioner to bring it up to code. GFCI and wet rated, of course. Nobody paid me for it either.

Most of the stations are free or way too cheap. It's like rooftop solar... makes people feel good and doesn't really matter either way as long as it's only a token amount of early adopters are doing it. But widespread adoption would/will have vastly different economics.

[charby]

Another thing to think about, what price of gasoline/diesel per gallon would really make you consider limiting how much or how far one will drive.

What price would make you consider a compact car or going hybrid/ev?

Prices being a long term increase, not a 6-18 month spike.

[sumpnz]

What would businesses say if we asked them to provide free gasoline pumps?  Or a free 5 gallons for customers or employees?  I somehow doubt that would be accepted. 

I haven't looked.  Are a lot of the charging stations free or do they require payment?

The ones at stores usually require payment.  At limited access employers it depends on the company.

[zahc]

The one compatible charger I found so far on my rental trip, was a 7.5kW AC charger, that charged $1 per hour. I calculated that's 13 cents per kWh, basically equal to the metered electricity rates around here. It was in a public park so presumably no profit motive.

[AZRedhawk44]

Yeah my understanding is there's two standards for public chargers.  The Tesla standard identifies the car and the account associated with it.  Initially as Tesla was growing and getting its reputation started, they included charging as a free perk of buying a car but now they charge for charging, an associated credit card to your vehicle ID.  Then the non-Tesla charge stations are often operated by 3rd party charge vendors, and rely upon either a smartphone app or a credit card swipe to operate.

I don't think free charging is a thing anywhere any more.

[WLJ]

EVs cost more to repair and customers don't like them. Who knew?

    Popular car rental service Hertz announced it will get rid of 20,000 electric vehicles from its fleet because of the high cost of fixing them.

    The company decided to sell after discovering the vehicles were more expensive to repair after a collision than gas-powered cars.

    “Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter, thereby supporting the company’s decision to initiate the material reduction in the EV fleet,” Hertz said in a statement.

What a Gas! Rental Car Company Does a Fast U-Turn on Switch to EV Fleet (Guess Why)
https://twitchy.com/dougp/2024/01/11/what-a-gas-rental-car-company-does-a-fast-u-turn-on-switch-to-ev-fleet-guess-why-n2391652

End of road for EVs? Hertz to sell 20,000 since customers don't like them - but could you get a good deal buying a cast-off Tesla for $18k?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/cars/article-12951939/hertz-sell-fleet-tesla.html

[HankB]

What kind of *expletive deleted*ing idiot has running water available and puts in those disgusting waterless urinals?

Someone with anosmia?

[Perd Hapley]

Josh Hawley on who benefits from transitioning to EVs.

https://twitter.com/DanielTurnerPTF/status/1745514979321639072

[Ben]

Several news stories out this morning about EVs dead in the water because of the cold weather. I found it interesting that everybody focused on Tesla, as if they are the only EVs out there. MDS is almost as bad as TDS. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here

[WLJ]

I also noticed the complete and total focus on Teslas having this problem. Elon is enemy #2 now behind Trump
The batteries are too cold to charge. Well with global warming that shouldn't happen!

[dogmush]

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-car-cold-weather-fears/

Meanwhile Norway's AAA reports EVs are underrepresented in rescues.

[WLJ]

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-car-cold-weather-fears/

Meanwhile Norway's AAA reports EVs are underrepresented in rescues.

I wonder what % of those Teslas are garage kept?

[Hawkmoon]

Several news stories out this morning about EVs dead in the water because of the cold weather. I found it interesting that everybody focused on Tesla, as if they are the only EVs out there. MDS is almost as bad as TDS. 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here

One expert told the news outlet that cold weather can impact the ability of electric vehicles to charge properly.

"It’s not plug and go. You have to precondition the battery, meaning that you have to get the battery up to the optimal temperature to accept a fast charge," said Mark Bilek of the Chicago Auto Trade Association.One expert told the news outlet that cold weather can impact the ability of electric vehicles to charge properly.

"It’s not plug and go. You have to precondition the battery, meaning that you have to get the battery up to the optimal temperature to accept a fast charge," said Mark Bilek of the Chicago Auto Trade Association.

Maybe they should install electric battery warmers.

Oh ... wait. Oops!

[dogmush]

They've got one:  https://insideevs.com/news/328909/tesla-or-gm-who-has-the-best-battery-thermal-management/

Also, most ICE cars in very cold climates have electric heaters installed as well.  It's pretty common to plug in your vehicle overnight if temps are expected to be sub-zero.

[WLJ]

Meanwhile thieve are targeting EV charging cables

Thieves target EV charging cables around Minneapolis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9glBiIAPpI

[WLJ]

And I saw something where apparently for some bizarre reasons "Karens"  like to go around unplugging people's cars.

[Perd Hapley]

https://the-pipeline.org/time-to-put-team-e-v-on-defense/

tl;dr version is that the EV nazis will not stop trying to take away your ICE vehicles until you hit back at their EVs. To wit:

In the spirit of the emissions mandates and other dictates that have been imposed on legacy auto manufacturers, I might recommend that we impose the following on electric vehicles:

Mandate massive weight reductions in E.V.s by 2030, perhaps an across the board 25 percent reduction from the current “corporate average weight” of the E.V. fleet. There would be punitive taxes and levies for failure to comply.
   
Mandate an end to dangerous lithium-based batteries by the year 2030.
   
Ban E.V.s from parking garages due to the risk of runaway thermal fires.

Ban E.V.s from bridges due to their weight.

Assess an annual 4-figure road tax on E.V.s since they don’t pay gasoline road taxes.

Assess a painful “scrapping fee” on the sale of every E.V. since they have such a short life span compared to I.C.E. cars.

In the spirit of cigarette warnings, mandate a giant warning label on the hood of every E.V. advising that foreign slaves and child labor were used to source the rare earth minerals in the car.

Impose a state level E.V. supplemental sales tax that is exactly equal to any federal incentive amount applied to the sale of an E.V.

Mandate petroleum-free tires on E.V.s to ensure the cars are truly net-zero, and that they don’t release toxic emissions.

[dogmush]

I don't think EV's are that much heavier than their competitors these days.

Tesla Model 3: 3800-4000lbs
BMW m340 xdrive: 3988 lbs
Audi S4: 3847lbs

Kona SE EV: 3571 lbs
Kona SR Gas: 3203 lbs

Lucid Air: 5200lbs
Mercedes S-Class: 5000lbs
BMW 760i X-drive: 5917 lbs (!?!)

They seem to be within about a trailer park denizen's weight of their competitors.

You'd be be better off hitting at the anti-energy infrastructure nazis that are going to keep people that could easily use EV's in ICE cars until the bitter (browned out) end.  THe answer is EV's where they make sense, and ICE where it makes sense.  And just like diesel, you will get some idiots that use a fuel where it doesn't make sense, just because they like the idea of it, and that's OK too.


Side Note: while googling those weights, I discovered that the Hummer EV is slightly more than 5 tons.  Which is ridiculous, and makes me thing GM is using a lead acid battery or some *expletive deleted*it.

[Ben]

THe answer is EV's where they make sense, and ICE where it makes sense.  And just like diesel, you will get some idiots that use a fuel where it doesn't make sense, just because they like the idea of it, and that's OK too.

Stop making sense, extremist.

[lee n. field]

I don't think EV's are that much heavier than their competitors these days.

Tesla Model 3: 3800-4000lbs
BMW m340 xdrive: 3988 lbs
Audi S4: 3847lbs

Kona SE EV: 3571 lbs
Kona SR Gas: 3203 lbs

Lucid Air: 5200lbs
Mercedes S-Class: 5000lbs
BMW 760i X-drive: 5917 lbs (!?!)

They seem to be within about a trailer park denizen's weight of their competitors.

You'd be be better off hitting at the anti-energy infrastructure nazis that are going to keep people that could easily use EV's in ICE cars until the bitter (browned out) end.  THe answer is EV's where they make sense, and ICE where it makes sense.  And just like diesel, you will get some idiots that use a fuel where it doesn't make sense, just because they like the idea of it, and that's OK too.


Side Note: while googling those weights, I discovered that the Hummer EV is slightly more than 5 tons.  Which is ridiculous, and makes me thing GM is using a lead acid battery or some *expletive deleted*it.

I watched a video about someone's homebrew EV conversion.  (His "rolling resume", as he went to work for one of the manufacturer's/.)  A EV VW Passant stuffed with enough batteries to give him a ~100mile range (typical for what I see claimed for conversions), weighted about what car+3 extra passengers did.  Not horrible.

--edit to add--

This I think: My EV conversion after 10 years and 90k miles

[zahc]

https://the-pipeline.org/time-to-put-team-e-v-on-defense/

tl;dr version is that the EV nazis will not stop trying to take away your ICE vehicles until you hit back at their EVs. To wit:

This is brilliant!

[Perd Hapley]

The answer is EV's where they make sense, and ICE where it makes sense. 

The problem with this is that making sense is not a priority. The priority seems to be:

Phase 1:  crush your freedoms

Phase 2:  ?

Phase 3:  Profit! (or something)

[WLJ]

Teslas cutting 10% of it's workforce
Tesla is reporting it first decline in sales in nearly 4 years.
and did any one hear about an arson attack while is mentioned in the article on one of it's factories?

'There is nothing I hate more': How Elon Musk delivered news that 10% of Tesla's global workforce of 140,000 would be axed to keep the EV maker 'lean and hungry for the next growth cycle'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13310433/Elon-Musk-tesla-memo-hate-more.html